Sam's build thread

[sambb]

Had a good look around the engine tonight to see if I could find where all my oil is going. It was big fingers crossed that I'd find the turbo to be schmeared in oil goop but unfortunately it wasn't to be. The comp side was clean as a whistle despite the TIP being coated in pre catch can blow by goop, and the hot side whilst sooty looking, didn't have any wet shiny oil in it. I got a pic of the hot side taken via a mirror. To me that dry looking chimney soot blackness doesn't indicate oil burn but I'm happy to have opinions on that given that I've never really seen bona fide oil burning turbo hot sides before. opinions?

[sambb]

a supercar war between two of the best F1 designers that have ever lived. Neweys Aston Valkyrie V12 now challenged by Murrays V12. It says Cosworth on the sketches of the engine so that's the same engine probably too. I'd love to see someone like Martin Brundle do a comparo of them:

YouTube

[sambb]

Did a bit of intake remodelling. A 90 degeree 2.75in section lines up the pod housing perfectly with the cold air intake throat. The catch can is now finished with AN fittings and the correct oil resistant hose and will run like this, vent to atmosphere with no PCV in track guise.
On the street (legal) though the catch can vent filter will be removed for this line to the TIP and the PCV (which draws on the crankcase line like the stock setup) will be connected to the plenum. The stink from the vent to atmosphere setup was feral. Emissions aside, I don't know how anyone could be happy running vent to atmosphere on the street. Every time you are stopped in traffic or have the interior fan running the smell is pretty hard to ignore.

[HaydEn]

Air recirculation on, let the cabin filter get rid of the smell!


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[Sydneykid]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]46641[/ATTACH]Did a bit of intake remodelling. A 90 degeree 2.75in section lines up the pod housing perfectly with the cold air intake throat. The catch can is now finished with AN fittings and the correct oil resistant hose and will run like this, vent to atmosphere with no PCV in track guise.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]46642[/ATTACH] On the street (legal) though the catch can vent filter will be removed for this line to the TIP and the PCV (which draws on the crankcase line like the stock setup) will be connected to the plenum. The stink from the vent to atmosphere setup was feral. Emissions aside, I don't know how anyone could be happy running vent to atmosphere on the street. Every time you are stopped in traffic or have the interior fan running the smell is pretty hard to ignore.

That looks really neat Sam, nice job. If the smell is that bad then that's not a good sign of engine health, they really shouldn't breath that much (if at all) once they are up to temperature. I think I suggested it previously, but just in case, a leak down test should be on the agenda.

Cheers
Gary

[sambb]

yep standing outside of the car at night with the headlights on at idle, you could visibly see fumes coming out under that corner of the bonnet. I'm starting to look at my other engine sitting on the stand thinking its not far off from getting a run. Whether that be the head, bottom end or both I'm not sure yet. I don't have compressed air so i'll arrange a mate to do the test soon enough.

[simon k]

could visibly see fumes coming out under that corner of the bonnet.

berk... take the oil filler cap off and get your missus to give it a rev

[sambb]

But then again I haven't run a catch can before so wouldnt know if thats normal to see a bit of vapour coming out illuminated by headlights. My older cars all just had a crank breather going out under the car and a filter on the rocker cover when that kind of thing was ok and other cars just had stock PCV systems so I've never noticed that before.
I went down and spoke to my mate. We may do the leak down next week. While we chatted we left the car idling for ages and it actually didnt blow anything at all when I gave it a big rev when I went back out to the car so maybe its not stem seals.
He reckons if the comp test shows that the combustion chamber sealing is ok, that it could still be the oil control rings. He also said the turbo could still definitely be a culprit if it was dry sooty looking on the hot side.
I must admit this does all coincide with changing from a VW 504 spec 5W30 to a non VW 504 10W40 oil which does have me thinking that the oil could have a part to play.

[simon k]

While we chatted we left the car idling for ages and it actually didnt blow anything at all when I gave it a big rev when I went back out to the car so maybe its not stem seals.

Worn valve guide seals will (on pushrod motors at least) only let oil into the chambers when left overnight, the oil leaks down and you get a puff on first start in the morning, not when it's running because the valve is open during the intake stroke. Worn rings or glazed bores will let oil up past the rings at idle

I must admit this does all coincide with changing from a VW 504 spec 5W30 to a non VW 504 10W40 oil which does have me thinking that the oil could have a part to play.

sigh... scientific method says a change like that must be ruled out before you start thinking it's something else! especially going from a 5w to a 10w!

[sambb]

I know but a 10W40 burning more oil than a thinner oil - just doesn't seem likely. But seen as I have no money for a rebuild I do need to rule that one out yeah.

[sambb]

Ok because I have engine stuff on my mind I have an oil level checking question. I always used to check the oil level cold. But now I have an oil cooler which with say a meter and a half of lines adds up to some additional capacity. The cooler itself sits more or less level with the sump with possibly half the cooler sitting above the sumps oil level. So I'm thinking that that head of oil above the sumps normal level will naturally try to equalise when the car is rested yeah? ie some of it flowing back and raising the sumps oil level at cold. When the car is started, warmed and the oil thermostat opens and primes up the cooler then the 'operating level' of the sump would actually drop below the measured cold level wouldn't it.
So am I right in thinking that when oil level is measured cold, that that level is actually exaggerated by some of the cooler capacity that has flowed into the sump? Wouldn't the best way to measure oil level after oil cooler fitment be when the car is warm and the oil thermostat has opened and you know all of that system is primed up??

[Sydneykid]

It's not common for the oil to flow back into the engine from the cooler as to do so it has to have access to air to replace the oil. Since the oil pump is not open to atmosphere (its pick up is immersed in oil) the air can't get in (to the cooler) through the oil pump. This leaves the only access (for air) to be via the oil filter, which most engine manufacturers design to not empty back into the sump (anti drain back) as that means zero oil pressure on start up.

The oil flow routing is determined by the oil cooler adaptor, so maybe just confirm the oil flow, it's usually;
pump ----> adaptor -------> cooler -------> oil filter ---------> engine.

Cheers
Gary

[Sydneykid]

But then again I haven't run a catch can before so wouldnt know if thats normal to see a bit of vapour coming out illuminated by headlights. My older cars all just had a crank breather going out under the car and a filter on the rocker cover when that kind of thing was ok and other cars just had stock PCV systems so I've never noticed that before.
I went down and spoke to my mate. We may do the leak down next week. While we chatted we left the car idling for ages and it actually didnt blow anything at all when I gave it a big rev when I went back out to the car so maybe its not stem seals.
He reckons if the comp test shows that the combustion chamber sealing is ok, that it could still be the oil control rings. He also said the turbo could still definitely be a culprit if it was dry sooty looking on the hot side.
I must admit this does all coincide with changing from a VW 504 spec 5W30 to a non VW 504 10W40 oil which does have me thinking that the oil could have a part to play.

With leak down testing we do 2, commonly called wet and dry. Dry test first which tests the ring sealing and the valve seating. If that shows minimal leak down then all is well. If we do get questionable leak down then we do a wet test, which requires pouring enough oil down the spark plug hole to seal the rings. Then we do another leak down test, if the leaking stops them we know it's rings. If the leaking doesn't stop then we know it's valve seating.

Not always, but commonly if a wet leak down test shows the valves not seating then the valve guides are usually stuffed. Being either the cause of the poor seating or the result of uneven seating. It doesn't always go hand in hand, but it's a pretty good indicator.

Plus if the wet leak down test shows it's a valve problem then head off is easier than an engine out.

Cheers
Gary

[Sydneykid]

The reason we run oil at 100 degrees minimum is to boil off any condensation from the oil. So as the engine temp climbs to 100 degrees I fully expect to see water vapour flow out of the catch can, which is easily visible in the headlights. Obviously since this was mixed in with the oil it caries the oily smell with it. Once the engine has reached operating temperature and the water has boiled off then the water vapour trail should diminish to zero. Plus when the engine is below operating temperatures there will be some blow by until the pistons expand, taking the rings with them.

Cheers
Gary

[sambb]

Thanks for that Gary. Can make a plan off that for sure. I'll confirm the oil cooler routing tonight. Yeah I hadn't thought in terms of the oil being hydro locked up past the pump. That's good to know.
I did a dry compression test last night just to check that nothing was glaringly cactus and got 163, 166, 164 and 165psi on 4 cranks which is well within spec and variance between cylinder tolerance. I could have wet comp tested it but since nothing was wrong with the dry test I just put it back together. I'll do dry/wet when I do the leak down soon and for now am going to bung some Nulon euro spec 5W30 back in it and see if anything changes.