Sam's build thread

[simon k]

Re the coding out of the traction control, is it just the throttle cut that you moved the threshold on. Does the brake modulation part of the TC below 40km/h still work?

just the throttle cut when braking - Tuning - S4wiki

remembering that my usual competition car is a 48 year old mini, what does "brake modulation below 40km/h" feel like? the ABS still works normally... the car doesn't behave any different to before I upped the limit

[sambb]

When you press the ESP off button so that it is lit (and the slippery when wet symbol illuminates on the dash) you have defeated the traction control and ironically ESP is alive and well in the background. Pulling the brake switch plug will get rid of the lot though but not inc ABS which will still work. The TC consists of throttle cut at any speed and thrown in below 40km/h it will grab which ever front brake on the wheel which is slipping. It uses the wheel speed sensors to see if a wheel is spinning up and applies a tiny bit of brake to bring that tyre independently back into traction. You cant really feel that happening but you can definitely feel the throttle cut which is so aggressive I reckon its dangerous. So yeah it would be interesting to see what kind of launches would be possible with the TC still engaged, no throttle cut (because its coded out) but some brake modulation happening from a standing start. I've read that brake modulation TC can prevent viscous diffs from working properly since those diffs need a difference in wheel slip speed before they start to lock, but I have absolutely no idea if it would interfere with the locking action of my wavetrac. When traction is very low you can feel a wavetrac switching torque from one wheel to the other and back again. A FWD quaife that I've driven was even worse than that and in a lower torque car so I'm glad I went for the wavetrac version of a torsen diff. But yeah if the TC's brake modulation would make for better launches or help you get the power down coming out of an uphill hairpin then that would be great, or at least you could reserve that setting for when its wet.

[simon k]

When you press the ESP off button so that it is lit (and the slippery when wet symbol illuminates on the dash) you have defeated the traction control and ironically ESP is alive and well in the background. Pulling the brake switch plug will get rid of the lot though but not inc ABS which will still work. The TC consists of throttle cut at any speed and thrown in below 40km/h it will grab which ever front brake on the wheel which is slipping. It uses the wheel speed sensors to see if a wheel is spinning up and applies a tiny bit of brake to bring that tyre independently back into traction. You cant really feel that happening but you can definitely feel the throttle cut which is so aggressive I reckon its dangerous. So yeah it would be interesting to see what kind of launches would be possible with the TC still engaged, no throttle cut (because its coded out) but some brake modulation happening from a standing start. I've read that brake modulation TC can prevent viscous diffs from working properly since those diffs need a difference in wheel slip speed before they start to lock, but I have absolutely no idea if it would interfere with the locking action of my wavetrac. When traction is very low you can feel a wavetrac switching torque from one wheel to the other and back again. A FWD quaife that I've driven was even worse than that and in a lower torque car so I'm glad I went for the wavetrac version of a torsen diff. But yeah if the TC's brake modulation would make for better launches or help you get the power down coming out of an uphill hairpin then that would be great, or at least you could reserve that setting for when its wet.

lol, all sorts of things going on - busy little critter isn't it... what sort of diff is standard on our polo?

I suppose the traction control would interfere with a viscous LSD a bit, but turning any corner will start to heat it up, you shouldn't need a lot of wheelspin. I wrecked a pair of AWD Honda Civics (long story) that have a viscous coupling for the rear drive and I couldn't do a handbrake turn without the coupling locking up the front wheels right after the handbrake locked rears... but that's a bit irrelevant

this bit:

It uses the wheel speed sensors to see if a wheel is spinning up and applies a tiny bit of brake to bring that tyre independently back into traction.

still works on my car, you can feel it when (for example) trying to take off in a hurry when turning left from the give-way at a T intersection - and can feel a bit of a tug, and the light on the dash blinks

[sambb]

yep that blinking would be the brakes doing there thing. That's cool, that's not a bad feature to keep but yeah the throttle cut can be banished as far as I'm concerned.
At the hillclimbs last year I was looking at Malcom Oastlers turbo hyabusa dallara open wheeler wondering whether the chain drive sprocket onto the rear axle was running it as a locker. What he actually uses as his diff is the viscous centre diff from a Honda CRV in between each driveshaft. I mean this thing is mental - an ex F1 head engineers own race car (350hp atw and 350kg) and he uses an early Honda CRV's centre diff to help propel him like a missile. He fills it with like 4 litres of fuel for each run and is always adjusting his aero and dampers etc etc so its pretty cool that probably the worlds cheapest viscous diff can be up to the task.
Ours is just an open single spinner diff.

[sambb]

Simon hang on - AWD civics!!! please tell

[Sydneykid]

Simon hang on - AWD civics!!! please tell

Yep, Japan only 4WD EG Civic 4 door, ran similar running gear to the HRV Gen 1 with a viscous in the middle = Real Time AWD.


Cheers
Gary

[simon k]

Yep, Japan only 4WD EG Civic 4 door, ran similar running gear to the HRV Gen 1 with a viscous in the middle = Real Time AWD.


Cheers
Gary

yep, RT4wd - they were sold worldwide as a wagon, in Australia in 1988 & 1989 with a SOHC carb motor. They disappeared pretty quickly, I guess replaced by CRV

They were called a 'Shuttle' everywhere but here. Ugly as hell, but look pretty cool lowered a bit and with some nice wheels

here's a good little article about them

The reasonable and amazing, Honda Civic Shuttle.

I have a very long term project of putting the running gear into one of my minis, I'll get there one day

[sambb]

I remember those now! pretty sure I've seen a couple of them. Love that pic of the guy jumping it calm as you like. Nice project.

[Sydneykid]

There was the Shuttle (Civic Wagon) ................



But there as also a 4 Door Civic Sedan in the EG (5th gen) that came with 4WD, was originally Japan only but there was a LHD version, so US or Europe, a few made their way to NZ, called the RTSi.

There's a video of a LHD one doing a 4WD donut ...........

Cheers
Gary

[simon k]

But there as also a 4 Door Civic Sedan in the EG (5th gen) that came with 4WD, was originally Japan only but there was a LHD version, so US or Europe, a few made their way to NZ, called the RTSi.

There's a video of a LHD one doing a 4WD donut ...........

Cheers
Gary

that's cool - I never knew it existed, not at all surprised. I wonder what it would have done to their market share if they'd kept with it like Subaru

really makes me keen to get back in to my mini conversion... I have the running gear from one of the wagons, and I still have the other one as a complete-ish car, and a pair of twin cam injected motors, I just need the inspiration to get stuck in again. Unfortunately the car I want to put it in also requires heeeaapps of body work... I'm capable, but have trouble with motivation

[sambb]

campsite set up on friday
Our topgear table - $2K regas and $1k2 yokos
Squeezing some sighting runs up the esses in before sunset
Saturday up the esses.

Esses results. Times are irrelevant since the club has admitted to a timing offset for sector 1 that they don't seem to want to disclose. I'm not sure if that's even true, as my last run was an absolute cracker and was down as slower than everything else and a guy who got a similar time to me on the last run checked his gopro and the time stamps were way faster than the time he got too. Last year without an LSD or coilovers apparently I went 2.7 seconds quicker which is just bollocks on a 30 second run. But hey the placings are apparently legit so I'll take it.
staged up at the top for day 2 Mountain Straight before heading down to the start line. Car looks less edgy than I was!
The queue leading up the hump in the mountain straight where we start.
Its hard to be ****ty at the guy that drops oil across the top of the mountain and ruins your second run when its your best mate. Yep that's my saucepan collecting whats left of his power steering fluid.
Final results for day 2. My goal was to try to crack top 10 (was 13th last year) and managed a 5th so absolutely stoked with that. Panorama is a scary place all round but the esses on day 1 is nothing compared to day 2 for having you absolutely peaking before each run. Once I got the first run out of the way this year (which I really treated as a way to finally suss the line over the crest which has always terrified me) I felt pretty calm because I new the car was just sweet and so I could really think about what I needed to do on each run. I was super stoked about my bottom splits relative to the rest of the guys and was just elated that I was able to build on my times throughout the day rather than blow my wad early and then have everyone go past me later - suspension changes have a lot to do with that.

[sambb]

might be a random logging jpeg at the end of last post but cant get rid of it. too many coopers. mystery??

[sambb]

Gary is a genius. My Diverter valve adapter pipe arrived today so I spliced it into the throttle body inlet pipe, repositioned the DV to that spot, capped off the normal DV inlet pipe that's on the steel hard pipe that exits the compressor and then ran a very ugly 1in pipe that I got from work across from the DV to the TIP. School pick up is no time to be testing boost drops mid corner bit I can tell you the theory of moving the DV to this position must be fundamentally sound because I have virtually zero compressor surge on lift off like I had before. The DV operation is just as audible but what I had really noticed after I de-mufflered the compressor outlet was how bad the ch ch ch ch compressor stutter was. With the DV in this position though, the DV exhausts as per usual but it seems as though the pressure wave isn't reaching all the way back to the compressor causing it to stutter. Hopefully now the pressure dump happens pre throttle plate and the air is still sailing down the induction pipes and intercooler and it will help reduce boost drop on small throttle lifts on the track.

[metalhead]

Hey Sam,

Found this on Facebook last night:



And posted a Youtube of Jenna's footage of your car: YouTube

Cheers,

Andrew.

[rgvlee]

Pics of DV setup
I like visuals