spring/bar/weight/diff setups for FWD beam axle racers

[seangti]

Can't do any worse than my attempt at drag racing. A straight line hero I am not, lol. Back to the twisty stuff.

[kaanage]

The other thing about the threads linked in the "Does your VAG handle?" is that they conclude with the stock setup by VW being pretty damned good for everyday/GT usage which is not too surprising since they are a mulltinational with vast resources. The "normal" changes that we make on this thread (slight lowering and damper upgrade with decent coilovers or cup kits, moderate increase in roll stiffness) are basically the GT path because it's proven to work.

Whatever you decide to do, make sure you only make one change at a time - it's so easy to tune yourself to a standstill.

And let us know how things progress with your mods - my experiences and theorizing only goes so far (until I can justify a set of MCA's so I can play with height and spring/damping rates)

[sambb]

Yeah I hope the theory is true. It'll be hard to do bit by bit but I will do it as much as possible. I'll do the front end first (springs/koni's/eddy sleeves). If it feels like its going in the right direction then i'll get the stock rear springs reset lower (after getting their spring rate measured). If it feels turd like that then I more or less failed and i'll either bung on a rear bar or put the weitec rears from the set in which will make the car mainstream again.
The bit where I'm stuck is I don't know if the front springs will be stiff enough with the stock FARB. They will be stiff relative to the rears, but whether that's stiff enough to prevent camber gain at the front I don't know. It may have to be springs and bar upgrade at the front to work. That makes me a bit nervous because if it is a fail and I end up stiffening the rear to compensate, then I've just created what I wanted to avoid all along - an overly stiff car for the street.
Is minimum setting on an adjustable whiteline FARB still way stiffer than stock? I don't know if rebushing the stock FARB and throwing in stiffer droplinks would be sufficient.

[seangti]

Is minimum setting on an adjustable whiteline FARB still way stiffer than stock? I don't know if rebushing the stock FARB and throwing in stiffer droplinks would be sufficient.

I don't see rebushing or changing droplinks making any difference. The drop links are a metal of some form and don't flex, I've changed to adjustable Whiteline HD links and no difference. Subaru's used to (may still) run hardened plastic links on the rear sway, changing to a HD link made a difference on them, but the VW stuff doesn't flex.

[sambb]

Was hoping it might eek out a bit more response since they look a bit noodly, but no flex and no difference with a drop link swap eh. Alright thanks.

[seangti]

A mate just sent me this link - Suspension Choice and Set Up

So far only reading up on roll stiffness, very interesting, and it has some maths to quantify changes.

[kaanage]

The roll centres section in the Geometry page highlights another issue with dropping a Mac Strut too far aside from the commonly know camber issue.

[sambb]

I don't know - maybe CNC machining type people could answer this one.... Would it be feasible to take our ball joint assemblies, grind off the welded on nuts and then elongate the remaining holes into slots that could slide the joint in and out of the control arm for camber adjustment. Obviously you'd need to change to nuts and bolts afterwards. any thoughts? Pete? eddy machinist mate?

would look similar to this in the end:

Roll Center/Bumpsteer Correction Kit : USRT, Usually Sideways Rally Team

[Bullet Fast]

Will this work?

Find SuperPro Parts for My Vehicle

[sambb]

That would be the one. Is that the mk5 golf one though? I couldn't find anything for the polo. Anyone have any ideas if this or the mk4 golf ones will fit into our lower control arms?

[Eddy]

Will this work?

Find SuperPro Parts for My Vehicle

Hoyhoy.

These could be interesting.

[kaanage]

I know someone who fitted those to his tarmac rally car (a Fiat Punto turbodiesel) and said the difference in directness and control over polyureathane rear LCA bushes was remarkable. The Punto has an verticle rear LCA layout like the MkIV Golf and 6R Polo, though.

[sambb]

The superpro ball joints don't look as extended as these ones:
Roll Center/Bumpsteer Correction Kit : USRT, Usually Sideways Rally Team
but it does say that they are extended ball joint. I guess you'd choose based on how low you had gone. An added advantage of gaining camber at the strut base (rather than the top) is that it is track widening.
A lot of 'if's' though. Who knows if the ball joint fits our spindle, whether the bolt patterns line up with our control arms or if its slim enough to slide inside it. I'll send them an email.

[sambb]

Here's another spin on it:

http://www.ingallseng.com/Instructions/35655.pdf

Hey what about this idea as a way to extend actual ball joint height but by using OEM polo gear - Using our existing OEM ball joint assembly but bolting it to the top of our control arm (sort of like the pic in the link) rather than sliding it inside. 1st you'd make up a plate that matches the ball joint assembly bolt pattern, and this would slide into the control arm arm where the ball joint assembly normally goes. The purpose of this would be to be to prevent the control arm ends crushing when torqued and would keep it all strong. Then you just put the OEM ball joint on top of the control arm and bolt it down much as you normally would (you'd need slightly longer bolts).
Thats gotta work. That would raise your ball joint by atleast the width of the OEM ball joint assemblies plate, uses OEM parts and is totally reversible. Just a keyboard idea though - haven't had a good look at the top of our control arm to see if there are ribs that may not let it seat properly.

[sambb]

actually no ... that won't work. It'll keep the ball joint pivot in the same spot relative to the spindle and just change the control arm angle. Might still be a valid way of putting a ball joint assembly onto our control arm that does have an extended taper from another car.

If it won't fit, would it be possible to fill the mk5 super pro ball joints holes with weld without melting the boot/pivot? If its close it could then be redrilled to our bolt pattern.