Stock Spring Rate for GTIs

[Bullet Fast]

So...

I'm going to replace the shocks in my GTI (75k km) with something better. I've had an excellant time with Koni Yellow Sport adjustables before - and may go down this route again. Unfortunately while I'm mostly at ease with this plan I'm making some assumptions...

Stock spring-rates feel pretty to me for fast road applications -
Stock damper-travel/stroke feels sufficient for crappy australian roads -

My question to those who have played this game before is - have you tried the car on quality dampers before changing the stock spring rates? The car is certainly firm already and low enough to scrape it's nose on some driveways already. Without checking corner weights and seeing a spring guy I can only assume stock springs are pretty firm as is. A significant increase in spring rate and/or/combined with a travel reduction I feel may result in a loss of potential grip on Australian roads... Car already has a Whiteline rear sway bar too.

Thoughts?

I've played this game previously, another car I owned was custom wound King springed/Koni Yellows and overworked tyres, skipped sideways across bitumen etc. Essentially the springs ruined the car's mechanical grip.


Regards,

Pete

[kaanage]

[Rant=foaming at mouth]

What you are suggesting is close on to blasephemy, here.

The common approach is to drop as far as you car => stiff spring while not changing the dampers (since they're not perceived to be that important) => jouncy ride and skipping through corners.

I've suggested your approach (dampers first, then springs if deemed necessary) is the correct one but everyone wants drop so they either go springs first and then coilovers or straight to coilovers.

Tyre/suspension compliance is held in as little regard as damping control.

[/Rant]

[Bullet Fast]

Ahhhh, I was kinda hoping you'd reply to this. I saw you mention track settings somewhere else in the Forum,

Don't suppose you'd also suggest brake upgrades by swapping out pads for EBC Green stuff and running AP660 brake fluid with braided lines BEFORE throwing on monstrous disks and cobbled together caliper mods?

This comes up often in track circles and I know the argument well. I'd be more at ease buying some Koni Yellows locally and worrying about springs later than chancing an eBay Bilstein kit with springs... At least the Koni's can be upped if stock springs are too soft at the track.

Don't suppose you have an opinion on engine mounts??? >

[noone]

I think the stock springs are fairly soft, happy to find otherwise. As you are running a sway, it might be better to have no sway to evaluate whats next.

check your rear control arm bushes, they can tear causing all sorts of horrible geometry.

As for lowering, increacing spring rates, etc, I can only comment on what I've done. IMO the H&R springs made the car lower, but didn't add much road feel into the cabin. That was a while back now, before a few other things changed and before I went to coilovers so not 100% on how it felt.

Lots of options, many of us change the suspension components for handling and aesthetics, but I understand what you are trying to stay away from. Sways are not your friend in this area IMO, let each wheel go where it wants.

My fairly uneducated recommendation would be the Koni's and see what happens, although I'd want shorter springs to reduce the body roll you are combating with the rear sway.

Have you looked on the Polo UK forums? Seen whats available from Orange Tuning, DPM, Awesome GTI, etc?

[Polo GTEye N9]

Good question Pete,
I had Koni Yellow Sport adjustables on my recently sold WRX MY06. I also two other sets of Whiteline Superlows, then had Bilstein PSS9 coliovers on it for a while and the PSS9's were superior IMO but for the money Konis are my pick. With the Koni Yellow Sport adjustables I used the EOM coils and the ride in all conditions was good. Ken Graham recommends Koni Yellow Sport adjustables for WRX. I have no idea what works on the Polo, as I am so new to VW and Polo. I could not care less about the 'look' really only keen on functionality. So in view of that would like to know what would suit a Polo too. Cheers Al

[brad]

I fitted Koni Yellows to a mates near new Polo 77tsi DSG Comfortline (it's his commuter, he has an Evora as well). This guy is very fussy about how his cars ride / handling. His previous commuter was a Koni equipped 2004 Fiesta which was amazing around corners.

They felt really good in the brief 10 miniute drive I had after the install. I'd say do it.

His thoughts on the stock suspension (from my other forum):

The chassis ain't a patch on the Fiesta though. It can carry great speed, but it's pretty floaty & can get some serious vertical movement going if you aren't kind to it. But for normal operation, it's so relaxed to drive you can easily forgive it. Konis/RSB will fix it later...but I don't want to make it ride like a GTI (Golf...not driven a Polo)! I personally find the Golf GTI ride rather bothersome & busy. I'd love it to remain on the French side of sporty if I can.

bouncy but astonishingly capable

the ride has been rather jittery & it just wasn't coping with mid-corner ridges well. JD said when he drove it it felt like there was 60psi in the tyres but I said "don't be silly, the dealer would have set them to OEM, that's how these drive (without Konis)". I was wrong - all corners were set to 44psi (!) and now they are at 35 life is much, much improved. The chassis actually makes sense now, grainier steering feedback & adequate bump absorbtion. I can live with this for a few months until I have money for Dutch dampers. There's real promise in this little car because it now gracefully arcs around 130R at 125km/h, slightly tail-led.

What I do miss is some form of damper control - the little thing bounces everywhere! I doubt the dampers are worth more than a quid & sixpence. Very much looking forward to Konis - they will definitely complete this little package

After fitment of Koni Yellows on softest damper settings:

The Polo damping is now sublime. It's just like the Fiesta's was (why wouldn't it be...same suspension layout, vehicle weight, similar spring rates) - I now don't miss the little Ford so much. Roll control in the VW is better OEM than the Ford was, so there's no screaming need to fit a torsion bar stiffener.

Chucking it through the RNP was mightily entertaining. I can now whip over the weir without bottoming out, followed by a big bounce...every bump is dealt with deftly & trimmed to perfection. Konis on these small cars is a match made in heaven - VW should have fitted the damned things as standard I can only imagine how much the motoring press would have raved about these cars if they had. And it was still Wheels COTY in 2010.

Secondary ride is also far, far, far better than standard too. There is NO compromise whatsoever. Mainstream OEM damper tuners are morons.

All the chassis mods (dampers, EPAS, wheel alignment, etc) made it so damn relaxing to drive, even at high speeds through demanding sweepers. It's still softly sprung, but with the body control it's got I wouldn't have it any other way. In some circumstances, it positively g-l-i-d-e-s over broken tarmac, like a little limo.

From one of the other guys that drove it:

I drove it around the city for a bit then through the RNP to Bundeena, having had a bit of a go in it pre-Konis. Honestly, while it is beautifully made and finished, had a great engine and gearbox combo and crisp steering, the chassis was a relative let-down. Bit too soft, squishy, bit floaty and uneasy and seemed to want to understeer up to the point it would lurch into oversteer. Much like all the other non-sport VWs I've driven. 4/10

With Konis the transformation is quite astonishing. Already the steering has more feel, and a nice natural flow. The ride is flat, taut but still supple and yet the OEM bushings mean that there is Merc-like suppression of road shocks and imperfections. There is still a comforting trace of initial understeer but this can easily be driven around and the overall sense if of great poise and a nice, light-footed balance. Even at 120-plus, it feels stable and involving, subtly squatting on the outside rear powering through. 8/10

[pologti18t]

I put Koni Yellows on my previous Astra SRi. Transformed the car. It was particularly good on ****ty country roads (like Thunderbolts etc). Would just absorb the potholes and bumps without being thrown offline.
You could also tweak the rear rebound (more) to give it slightly better turn-in feel. Much smoother turn-in than the Rear ARB I added later.

Haven't bother with the Polo GTI - though it probably needs it.

As someone mentioned. One of the best upgrades on a GTI is to replace the lower control arm bushes with those from the Cupra R. Steering is much better for it.

[Bullet Fast]

Thanks for the responses guys (Brad esp) this is what I was keen to hear.

Time to get the Visa car out for another belting...

[Bora Sport]

I have had Koni yellows on my 1988 Mk 2 Golf 16V GTI with original springs, my wife's Vento with standard springs, my VR6 with lowered springs and am currently running them on the Bora 4Mo with the standard setup. I am a fan obviously. I also bought a matched set of Eibach springs and Koni yellows on my other VR6 and as far as I am aware they are still going strong but now in a JMac built VR6 Vento. I was very happy with that setup too.

I recently replaced the stock setup on my Polo GTI with a matched set of Weitec lowered springs and non adjustable shocks. It was a noticeable improvement over the then 85,000k standard setup. I went with that setup because it came along at the right price from a member on this forum. I had already purchased a set of Weitec springs of a member on this forum but never got round to using them. I would be happy to clear them out of the garage for a very reasonable sum. I reckon they would go well with Koni yellows. I drive around 600k's a week all over the Sunshine Coast and barely a week goes by that I don't do 10-20 k's or so on gravel roads. Therefore I was not after a huge drop in height. Hence my current setup.

I don't know if any of this epic tome assists at all but in a nutshell I recommend Konis after many hundreds of thousands of kilometres on a varied range of VW's.

[Polo GTEye N9]

Hi Bora Sports, so my question is where can I get a set of Koni Yellow Adjustable shocks for my Polo GTi N9?

What should I expect to pay for Konis and where to get them?

Any links would help too? Any fitment diy?

As for the your set of Weitec springs PM me with your asking price and if possible a link to info on the Weitec springs.

Cheers Al

[brad]

Wholesale Suspension in Penrith. Will cost about $960 delivered. Not sure where u live but there are plenty of koni sellers out there.
Overseas sellers can be as low as 550 but you carry your own warranty at that price.
Rears take 10mins per side.
Fronts about 1 hour per side if you are unfamiliar. You'll need to purchase or make a strut spreader tool. You won't need triplesquare drivers if you have vice grips & a rattle gun. Spring compressors r helpful too.

[Polo GTEye N9]

G'day Brad
Thanks for the reply. Yeah got all the right gear for the job and have done numerous suspension mods. Koni are good products. Cheers Al

[noone]

Stock Spring Rate for GTIs

. Rears take 10mins per side.
Fronts about 1 hour per side if you are unfamiliar.

Wow. Are you mechanically experienced? I don't see how I could do it in that time.

[h100vw]

Wow. Are you mechanically experienced? I don't see how I could do it in that time.

That's pretty reasonable. The rears are that easy. I would have done my fronts quicker but couldn't compress the standard springs far enough to get the shock out of the hub.

Gavin

[brad]

Wow. Are you mechanically experienced? I don't see how I could do it in that time.

The rears can be done without removing the wheels. Just hook into it with the rattle gun or air ratchet.

The fronts need a fat helper to push the hub off the strut.

I used to be a specialist undercar (brakes/suspension) mech 25 yrs back but only get the tools out a few times a year now. I'm not that fast but I don't let small issues stop me. My mates reckon watching me work is like watching an elephant walking - not fast but never stopping.

My mate with the Polo has no formal training but he's as good as I am on a spanner.

We changed the F&R springs in my Octavia & the F&R shocks on the Polo on the same day. Started at 10.00, stopped for lunch for 40 minutes & finished around 3.30 IIRC, inc cleaning up the garage & test drive. They are quite nice cars to work on.