Front Mounta Intercooler - dissappointed

[Petrina Polo]

Hi,

I bought a Front mounta intercooler for my Polo Gti. I previously had the tune done and dump pipe upgrade.

I fitted the intercooler kit myself.. (Its a Forge kit)

To be honest I noticed little or no benefit.. does anyone have any real data on the Standard Intercooler vs the Front mounta? Also the conditions in which any data is taken..

Im not convinced.. Im talking about 35+ degrees heat and no notable benefit to performance over chip + dump.

[Plautos]

A FMIC is not going to give you more power...

It will maintain the power maintaining the temperature, while the stock will get hotter and lose e efficiency.

[Petrina Polo]

Ok, I hear you...

But the intake rubber going into the throttle body is still boiling hot after the intercooler change?? Therefore is the air really that much cooler coming in..

My contention is that the standard intercooler doesnt really suffer that badly from heat soak or flow.. There is no noticable difference to power.

Prior to fitting the intercooler I never felt like my car was missing power due to heatsoak... or at least there is no difference now..

[GT3]

But the intake rubber going into the throttle body is still boiling hot after the intercooler change?? Therefore is the air really that much cooler coming in..

Something's wrong, I'm guessing it's not connected correctly. I have a Forge FMIC, I can drive it for hours, stop - open the bonnet immediately, grab the throttle body hose and it's almost freezing. Dropping my intake temps to approx 30 deg made mine go from 123kw atw to 136 atw. That just means the stock IC robs it of potential power (specially when chipped) rather than 'adding' vast amounts of power.

[Chipped]

Hi,

I bought a Front mounta intercooler for my Polo Gti. I previously had the tune done and dump pipe upgrade.

I fitted the intercooler kit myself.. (Its a Forge kit)

To be honest I noticed little or no benefit.. does anyone have any real data on the Standard Intercooler vs the Front mounta? Also the conditions in which any data is taken..

Im not convinced.. Im talking about 35+ degrees heat and no notable benefit to performance over chip + dump.

I Petrina, thats a shame - I just got a dump pipe and High FLow Cat put in and to be honest so far I feel no difference and I reckon the noise or note is pretty terrible...I'd say the money would have been better spent twd a FMIC...or maybe not
I hope it sorts out or you notice some improvements later..keep us posted.

[RhysQ]

A FMIC is not going to give you more power...

?????? whaaaat! of course an FMIC will give you more power. who told you that nonsense. cooler air into the intake means more power. in all tests done on chipped vs chipped and FMIC'd polo's, there has generally been an increase of about 5-6kW, in some cases more!

have a look at this thread and tell me that it won't give your more power - http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newf...ght=forge+FMIC

Petrina Polo, with the downpipe and FMIC you should have about a 13-15kW gain over just a chipped Polo, putting you at about 135kW at the wheels. that 135kW should last all day long as well, no heatsoak affect! if i were you i would get the system looked at by a professional for any signs of leaks etc.

[Mischa]

A FMIC is not going to give you more power...

It will maintain the power maintaining the temperature, while the stock will get hotter and lose e efficiency.

sorry that statement is incorrect. colder air is more dense which means more oxygen which means more power. an intercooler cools the air right before it goes into the intake manifold. even if its a cold day, the turbo can get very hot if you're driving hard and heat up the air that passes through it.

so yes, an intercooler (if set up properly) DOES give you more power.

[Plautos]

?????? whaaaat! of course an FMIC will give you more power. who told you that nonsense. cooler air into the intake means more power. in all tests done on chipped vs chipped and FMIC'd polo's, there has generally been an increase of about 5-6kW, in some cases more!

have a look at this thread and tell me that it won't give your more power - http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newf...ght=forge+FMIC

Petrina Polo, with the downpipe and FMIC you should have about a 13-15kW gain over just a chipped Polo, putting you at about 135kW at the wheels. that 135kW should last all day long as well, no heatsoak affect! if i were you i would get the system looked at by a professional for any signs of leaks etc.

Yes, I understand what you are saying, but try to follow my thought…

The power is already there!!

In a cold weather night, the car will run great.

In a hot afternoon you will feel it weak.

Now, with the FMIC the temperature exchange is more efficient!! It is thermodynamics!!
You have the same boost, to have the same fuel!! How do you have more power!?!

All right you have colder air, denser and heavier, however you will generate more power because the ECU will bring the injection system at the top efficiency…

[Plautos]

I'm very happy with the results of the Forge Intercooler, I order one this week, I hope in February it arrive.
And, I’m very happy with ours ECU’s.
They are able to produce “more power” if we give to then a chance to be more efficient., better fuel, colder air…

Sorry, I’m a engineer I have to think like one.

[seangti]

IMO, there is truth in both your thought processes.

Think of it like an exhaust if you will... The exhaust is a restrictor, so by fitting a performance exhaust isn't that the engine itself produces more power, the power is the result of better flow.

By getting colder intake temps, the result is more power. More efficient intercooler (numerous variables) equals cooler intake temps, equals more power. So a poorly set-up front mount will do sweet f* all.

If everything appears fine (piping), put the car on the dyno and check your intake temps after a few runs, they should stay steady, otherwise there's something not right about it.

[RhysQ]

i understand what you mean by that Plautos, but on paper it does generate more power, which keeps us non-engineer tuners happy!

don't go around telling people they won't give you more power or they won't buy them!

[Spec83]

IMO, there is truth in both your thought processes.

Think of it like an exhaust if you will... The exhaust is a restrictor, so by fitting a performance exhaust isn't that the engine itself produces more power, the power is the result of better flow.

By getting colder intake temps, the result is more power. More efficient intercooler (numerous variables) equals cooler intake temps, equals more power. So a poorly set-up front mount will do sweet f* all.

If everything appears fine (piping), put the car on the dyno and check your intake temps after a few runs, they should stay steady, otherwise there's something not right about it.

Engines works on a simple formula - (air+fuel)*spark = power

The cooler the air charge the more dense it is, which allows you to add more fuel before detonation (pre-ignition) occurs... If you can add more fuel and air in for the same amount of spark then you will get more power - this is the effect that should be observed when installing an intercooler

[Plautos]

i understand what you mean by that Plautos, but on paper it does generate more power, which keeps us non-engineer tuners happy!

don't go around telling people they won't give you more power or they won't buy them!

Yes I know... I'm a tunner also..

Anyway the FMIC, exhaust, intake, everything is possible to be tuned and give to us tuners better results...

We tuners have to know how an engineer thinks…

We build cars to everyone use, since a tuner to an old lady who will never open the hood. So, some limitations will be required.
We tuners have to understand that and tune our cars at our taste!

My taste in tuning is at the engine, a quest for efficiency and power, so I give incentives to everyone who wants to do the same thing.

You have to see my other cars! Especially the VW Bug from my signature!

[gareth_oau]

Yes, I understand what you are saying, but try to follow my thought…

The power is already there!!

In a cold weather night, the car will run great.

In a hot afternoon you will feel it weak.

Now, with the FMIC the temperature exchange is more efficient!! It is thermodynamics!!
You have the same boost, to have the same fuel!! How do you have more power!?!

All right you have colder air, denser and heavier, however you will generate more power because the ECU will bring the injection system at the top efficiency…

Plautis, thats kinda like saying i already have the fuel in my petrol tank, so how can a bigger set of injectors increase my power?

most mods are about actually realising a cars potential. Yes, a stanfdard turbo will deliver well on cold days, but how often do you get this. The FMIC will deliver colder for longer, thus realsing more of the cars potential

[RhysQ]

on another note, yes mods will 'free up the engine' so to speak, but only to a certain point. mods past this point (don't ask me where it is) will force more power out of the engine, beyond it's capabilities. i don't believe this forced power was already there and it's just been restricted.