Suspension for comfort and looks

[pixl]

I'm currently looking at the H&R springs for my GTI as it seems to be the best balance of looks and usability (ie. no scraping on speed bumps or driveways)

I realise that lowering the car is going to make the ride a little harsher. But is it the springs or the shocks that has a great effect on driving comfort?

I'm not tracking my car and never will. This is strictly for general driving so comfort is the highest priority.

Some say that the comfort is "better" with the lowered H&R springs? This confuses me. Unless of course it's possible to lower a car and have it feel smoother than stock?

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated as I'm a total noob when it comes to suspension.

[VW GTI]

Tighter the springs the more bouncy it will be over bumps.

[Dans GTI]

Im also looking at lowering my car but i dont know what its gonna feel like with the H&R springs. I dont want a smoother ride than a stock GTI, I like having that sporty ride.

Dans GTI

[Jarred]

Dont discount the effect of shocks on the system either.

Maybe look into somethin adjustable (the shocks)?

[Bubu]

This reminds me of an article I read...

People believe that a sports car should have stiffer suspension. Marketing departments from car manufacturers sometimes push to have suspension stiffer so it feels like a sports car even when the engineering advise against it.

So it may be possible to have lower and more comfortable suspension however without the shocks to match I dont think it would be the case with just the H&R springs. I could be wrong since I dont have the springs myself.

[pixl]

That's an interesting point, Bubu. I'd always listen to a point of view from an engineer rather than what marketing think something should feel like.

Popped into Pedders and had a good chat with one of the guys. He says he's had not experience with H&R, but generally speaking he says the lower the car, the rougher the ride. He also advised me against changing the shocks if comfort is my priority as he said that koni shocks would make everything rattle inside the cabin. I asked him about the extra wear on the standard shocks, but he also said that the stock GTI shocks are far from average and that they will easily cope with the lowered springs, providing of course that I don't track it.

So now I'm sitting on the fence. I'd like to have her sit lower, but I don't want to sacrifice comfort or more importantly, road noise. Hmmm....

Anyone in Melbourne got H&R springs and want to take me for a drive?

[insanekiwi]

Got H&R + bushes done today.

Quite comfortable, as comfort was really important for me.
I would highly recommended it. Looks awesome, rides great.

Only thing I am unhappy is that my wheel alignment is done with steering wheel slightly off centred. This needs to be fixed.

[pixl]

I'm so glad you chimed in, insanekiwi. I've read all your posts last week and it seems I'm going down the same path as you.

So apart from your wheel alignment issue, how do you compare it to stock springs? You say quite comfortable, but is it noisier in the cabin? Anything you can share will be awesome as you've got the most experience in this. Thanks!

[Dub_Star_V6]

Popped into Pedders and had a good chat with one of the guys. He says he's had not experience with H&R, but generally speaking he says the lower the car, the rougher the ride. He also advised me against changing the shocks if comfort is my priority as he said that koni shocks would make everything rattle inside the cabin.

"The lower the car, the rougher the ride" is simply false, as it's the spring rate, not the car's height, that dictates how harsh (or otherwise) a car rides. Damping also has an adverse effect on how the suspension works so to say that lower suspension means a harder ride is just not true.

I ran Kings Lows (-35mm) around KYB Excel-G shocks with uprated swaybar links (F/R), a 20mm rear bar and body reinforcement on my last car and it was far from harsh. In fact, it was smoother, more compliant and more controlled than any stock suspension could ever hope to be.

You can easily get springs of standard, OEM height with a much stiffer rate, meaning the car is no lower than stock but has a firmer ride because the spring rate is different.

And if comfort is your priority ask yourself why you'd bother changing springs in the first place? It is possible to have lower, more comfortable suspension but that is usually best achieved with matched shocks. All shocks do is control the oscillation of the spring, and not matching dampers to springs means the car will either be underdamped (too soft) or overdamped (too hard). This is why it's important to have dampers matched to the springs you're running, wherever possible. There's little point swapping to performance springs if you're not also intending to change the dampers, as all you'll wind up with stiffer springs alone is an underdamped suspension set-up.

Of course, if the damping rate of the OEM shocks is a close match for slightly lowered springs then there shouldn't be any problems. However, if the shocks are underdamped (soft bump/rebound) you'll have far less control than with stock suspension. And that won't be comfortable. And the guy who offered you this 'expert' advice works for a suspension shop?

However, if it's body control you're after, swaybars are a much better place to start. The rear bar is the first thing I intend to change on the Bora(t). I'll leave shocks and springs alone until I can do it properly.

[insanekiwi]

Great! Search is good isn't it

Yeah, I had a H&R springs before (didn't get it fitted), but sold it to a member here, as I didn't want an uncomfortable ride. Imagine having a possible *future* kid on the back, bouncing around... probably end up having vomit everywhere!!

Decided against it and sold it. That was July this year.

Then I did more research and heard good things about it over in UK. I do track days, and I didn't think I could improve the time by much without going lower, thus ended up doing the springs.

Did weigh the pros and cons of getting the shocks at the same time, but cost was a big issue, and I heard that standard shocks do stand quite well with lowered springs.

Another thing is comfort, and yes it is a little more bouncier, but didn't find the ride crashing at all. I put 40 psi on fronts and 38 on the back initially after getting the springs, but lowered the back to 36 as I found the rears slightly bouncier than before (compared to the front). At 36, it feels pretty even, may reduce it do 35 or 34 and try.

I am doing on a 700km return trip journey tomorrow, and by Friday afternoon I'll know more!!



Will let you know then!

[Dub_Star_V6]

Some more research for you: No Float

A lot of good stuff on AutoSpeed

[Grant]

my brother is installing my H&R springs as i type this. i'm at uni atm, but once i take it for a good drive tonight i'll post my opinions on ride quality. i'm not changing the shocks yet.. money was an issue, but once my stock shocks wear out i'll get bilsteins

[pixl]

Great article, very informative. Thanks Dub Star

Awesome stuff, Grant! Your input will be awesome. Look forward to hearing all about it.

[pologti18t]

I think that shocks are the biggest influence in ride comfort. You only have to look at all the R&D done by manufacturers in this area.

Digressive valving is the biggest thing at the moment for traditional shock absorbers (actually they are dampers). You can go for quite high spring rates and retain ride comfort using well matched digressive valves shocks.

[GT3]

Note: From 1 November 2008, there will be a price increase of 15% for H&R and 20% for Bilstein products. Orders made before 1 November will be at existing prices.