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**JTop** · 05-08-2021, 11:44 AM

TLDR. It's not a quick one hahaha
Just a quick one,

If you do put a big turbo in, don't expect to take it past 200kw atw without rodney becoming cheese and the engine toast

Nash Moon just reached 343kw at the hub on e85 with a G25-550 Garrett turbo. He's done the whole lot. Went with an Ignitron ECU, I think the ME7.5 can do boost by gear, but don't quote me on it

I'm waiting on some parts to arrive to start building my 1.9L big and usable turbo build, but working on another project right now.

Basics if even:
-Rods, Upgrade for 19mm wrist pinned ones and can run stock pistons up to well.. 343kw haha
-Turbo, need a decent tubular, or even a stock ported manifold works wonders with any k04, or even the hybrids like the littco l280
-Fuel; walbro will do, then depends how far you want to go. Stock 380cc max out and die so; 550cc are plenty with a k04/hybrid turbo, 630cc for extending it and 1000cc if you are going further up to e85 level. Stock rail will work fine with the 550cc, unsure of anything higher. And for the fpr, 3bar is fine, don't upgrade to 4 unless you are getting the car mapped the next week, you will just run lean.
-Exhaust, 3.5" trackslag down to a remaining 3" system is pretty epic, any other big turbo it becomes custom and vband is really the way to go.
-Intercooler. Airtec is good, but a Singlepass is better for flow. BAM/Audi S3 intake manifold and a battery relocation make that happen
-Brakes, at least get the Audi TT/S3 front brakes because you won't stop on the stockies.
-Gearbox. Need a clutch and flywheel to widthstand the power, people get the G60 stuff and mount that on. 6Speed boxes can be converted to fit, I got a Jetta box that's been modified to be mounted, Oh there is also Vibratechnic engine mounts. As for LSD's, don't order unless you have your box apart, like you mentioned. Crown wheel can be either size so job for a spare box.
-Running hotter you'd definitely need an oil cooler, so thermostatic sandwich plate is best. Mocal.
Oh my.. Yeah there is more that I haven't even mentioned and there is no even medium where you can be satisfied to stop.. especially once you start

Hope this helps a bit

-Diverter valve. Forge 008 is best, the GFB one works too

**Akuma** · 05-08-2021, 12:21 PM

Awesome some great info, I basically want to be at the highest whp/TQ possible without constant wheel spin ergo boost by gear will help wonders with that. I'm just trying to decide between the gt28 and gt30 basically... Every man and his dog has or wants to do the k04 swap and then wants more so I'm trying to negate the disappointment 3 months down the track. What about tuning? You mentioned ignitron what are the benifits over the me7.5?

Also which local tuners are recommend between gc and Brissy?

**sambb** · 05-08-2021, 01:18 PM

Yeah if you're going all out then the Garret path is probably the easiest way. If staying stock 81mm bore then you can keep the stock pistons (19mm wrist pin) but then you pretty much are locked into IE rods. You can go to 81mm Audi S3 pistons, the advantage that they are a 20mm wrist pin and then you have a full range of rods you can use. If going over bore to get it out to 1.9L then Wossner, Wiseco, JE, CP Carrillo all have them in the catalogues. If you want to go really serious you can change to a TFSI crank (uses same rods) and stroker pistons and get it out to 2+ litres.

For plug n play you have Link G4+ and Haltech Elite 2500 options. Despite already having a wide band, with those you'll need to use an aftermarket o2 sensor and can module to communicate to the ECU. You'll also need to run mafless (which can make cruise tricky) and use their MAP sensor. If you stay with the stock ecu you pretty much have to retain a MAF. You get the advantage of excellent driveability and knock sensing but you are locked into flash tuning. There are lots of tuners that can remotely tune and etuners etc who'll do it on a dyno. I'm not sure a bout boost by gear but you'll be able to get left foot brake, launch control, most emissions deletes etc but tuning for E85 off a dyno is difficult. Do able on a dyno but that'll eat a lot of time when flashing so maybe aftermarket ecu will be your friend.

You'll need an LSD for sure. If its going to be daily driven then look no further than Wavetrac torsen diffs. You dont even know they are there yet perform really well in a straight line. Clutch LSD's (Kaaz, Gripper, SQS) will give you better outright straight line grip because they cant ever break into single wheeling which the wavetrac can, but their street manners can be pretty horrible. If you are going to be flogging it the clutch LSD needs to be replated and to do that is a gearbox out and apart job each time each time, so there's the service side to consider. Yeah you'll need a single mass flywheel (ECS do them or Golf VR6) and a 'stage 2' minimum clutch. My one about to go in is off a VW transporter diesel T5 I think. It was just setup by western clutch in sydney and came in at 900kg versus the VR6 clutch (also sold as 'stage 1') which was 700kg.

Like Jan said you'll need to rebush the front end, make sure the subframes are in there tight ( look up eddy sleeves) and you'll need dampers if you are going to get the power down. The stock ones are woeful so B8 bilsteins are the go. Without more rebound you'll just be in a lane changing axle tramper.

probably more. It will add up. Pistons, rods, turbo and tunes/ecu will eat most of the money right there. The LSD is necessary though. Coming from an RX7 dont underestimate how dodgy a stock suspended Polo will be with all that power. check out Louis's build thread. He has some great roll racing vids and build vids on youtube.

enjoy
sam

**JTop** · 05-08-2021, 01:29 PM

Sam's spot on!
First mod on any Polo is Shocks+Springs, because the stock Sachs dampers are probably at their end of life and well... Useless at that point. Bilstein B8's for something decent without breaking the bank. Powerflex or Superpro bushings are a must too, so you can put the power down.
Ignitron was a plug and play system, just convenient for tuning really. I don't know enough about it like Nash does, haven't asked him enough questions regarding it
German Auto Dynamic potentially for tuning. I don't know any other shop capable of doing it up there

**sambb** · 05-08-2021, 01:57 PM

AR1's or Zestino Gredge 07R would be affordable 'street semi's' to run without eating into the power up kitty.
I always thought the 5 speed was a stronger box than the 6 speed but not 100% on that. You can fit a TDI 5th ratio to the box for a proper over drive 5th and do it through the side plate without splitting the box if you wanted the 6th speed for highway cruising.
And yeah any of the SEAT sport style IC's are the go. THS, Treadstone, AirTec. The SEAT itself is too thin and restrictive with only 2in pipes so isnt the go but if the others mentioned have bigger pipework they'll be the go especially since they have thicker cores. Bar n plate would be best too for the max grunt you are after.
Yeah any of the turbosmart or GFB piston style diverters are the go. You'll need a recirculating diverter if you plan on running it on the stock ECU with the MAF. Only if you go to a fully MAP sensed aftermarket ecu will you be able to run a splitter or full BOV.

**Akuma** · 05-08-2021, 03:28 PM

Awesome replies here guys! Ok so from everything I've just read from US forums you can do boost by gear and even TQ limits for each gear on the stock ecu... I don't really see the value in going stand alone? Unless it's purely for the tuner's sake. If I keep the stock ecu then I can retain all the goodies for daily drivability. from all this info I'm getting here basically, b8's and bushes/ dampeners are very important in keeping traction with the polo.

I'm not interested in E85 tbh... I know there's much more power to be had there but I don't know many pumps here that do offer it and my driving route really consists of school drop offs, groceries, etc 80% of the time and do t want to have to hunt pumps down because of it... I'm lazy ha ha..

I cant decide on the turbo though... Options are:

Gtx2871r
Gtx2867r
Or
Gtx3071r.

Does anyone have experience of have any of these on your cars? Thoughts?

This will purely be a daily I might track it once a year... So this is purely cost/value mods...

I had no idea about the tdi 5th that would be exactly what I'd want the 6th for anyway so that's awesome.

I might just have to go down and have a chat to German Auto Dynamic and get some ideas from them.

I wasn't sure how strong our boxes are but if they are better then I'd obviously rather keep it.

I don't think I'd really care going down the route of stroker and S3 pistons if our oem pistons can handle it then I wouldn't care.

Really like I said before Im looking for most cost/value out of the mods I do I know cheap and reliable dont go together but I also don't want a 15k "Apr stage 3" BS kit that I could put together myself for half the cost.

Does anyone know the widest semi slicks our stock rims take?

So as the list stands:
B8's with all the bushes etc.
Turbo.... I just don't know I'm honestly ready to pull a model out of a hat 🤣🤣
Airtec would be sufficient (cost/value adding)
Oil cooler🤔 probably a good idea
But I'd definitely want it spend extra hours on getting the tune dialled in.

Any more Info on injectors? I'd like to keep the stock fuel rail but would 550's limit my power too much? At say 80-85% DC

I've already ordered the gfb diverter so I'm glad that will be ok. Also already ordered the 4bar reg... So I'll see what the tune shop says about that too...

So I guess my most pressing matter to work out is the turbo now....

Also where can I find the b8's? Everywhere I've looked them just name the b14's which are south side of $2k....😳

**sambb** · 05-08-2021, 03:41 PM

oh and RE headwork you'll need exhaust valves, maybe springs depending on how hard you'll rev it, viton stem seals while you're in there. You'd only possibly need headwork if you used the small port head, but even then I dont think many guys do much there. Just the exhaust valves. If you wanted a big port head its off a Golf mk4 gti 'AGU' but then you'll need a large port inlet mani to go with it.

**sambb** · 05-08-2021, 03:58 PM

if E85 not a biggy then yeah in the interest of keeping enough money aside for the HP stuff, then sticking with the stock ecu might be the go. Remote tuning works pretty well with petrol as the engine is very definitely knock limited so they can use the knock sensing to find MBT. You'll keep a nice idle and part throttle takes care of itself with really good closed loop fuel trimming.
Yeah I think you'll need an oil cooler. Once you ditch the side mount, that leaves a nice spot for an oil cooler to sit. There's not much room left at the front with a big air to air wedged in there.
Yep if you keep the stock BJX 19mm pistons, then I'm not sure if anyone other than Integrated Engineering do 19mm rods. Their website has plenty of info re hot up paths for this engine too.
Re turbo, becuase you are going with petrol you just need to make sure you spec it so that at your power target the thing is in its efficiency island and so not running outlet temps through the roof. Louis19 ran a 3071R I think. You'll see from his Lakeside vids what it was capable of. You could try to PM him. Also there's a guy called Litto (Golf Mk4 gti threads) who did the same. He might be able to advise you a bit.
Bosch EV14 injectors fit. I'm on 550's on only a K04-001 and they get to 82-85% so you'd need bigger for sure. Look up VPW or any injector sites and they'll have prices. The length varies between small port and large port mani's but if you buy small port lengths you can get extenders for them if you change your mind.

**Akuma** · 05-08-2021, 04:03 PM

Cost/value of going agu head? Direct fit? My budget has to end somewhere but with the agu head it has the inlet mani opposite to ours right? So if I got the head and Mani I'd have to go the single pass intercooler... Damn man too 'mani' variables....🤣🤣

I just don't see the cost/value benifits.... I suppose it will spool the turbo better... Are the exhaust valves a must at these power levels?

At the moment my turbos done at 5k rpm being the ko3s feels like nothing's there... Buti suppose with these turbos I could ring it out... I need it to be years reliable so I can't see myself reving past 6.5-7k max and that'd be once in a blue moon when I really needed it... Otherwise I'd most likely stick to gear changes between 5.5k-6.5k when I felt the need for speed... Normal daily driving I'd be changing around the 4-5k mark partial throttle... You know still need to feed the family... And the kids are scared excited at the polo as is....🤣 There 7 and 5yo girls... The 5yo helps me with car maintenance lil rough nut... The 7yo is a scared little princess

**Akuma** · 05-08-2021, 04:13 PM

Sorry Sam posted while you did and I can't edit the last one. Ok so I could be up for a new fuel rail too.. yeah ill pm them and maybe meet up and see what they think... I couldn't find the vids of lakeside but I'm useless at searching the forum... I have tried and tires through! I used to hate those trolls of the JDM forums that wouldn't use the search button and now I'm looking like one! Sorry!!

Would this bush kit fit? Seems like the go for the price?

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Suits-Volkswagen-Polo-9N-SUPER-PRO-Front-Suspension-Bush-Kit-/333094417181?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46 890.l49286&mkrid=705-154756-20017-0

Or better of with:

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/VW-Polo-9N-9N3-02-08-Powerflex-Black-Complete-Bush-Kit-/380871985227?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46 890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0

And yeah great idea for the oil cooler mounting!

Something like this would work?

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Trust-AN10-13-Row-Oil-Cooler-Thermostat-85-Degrees-Sandwich-Plate-Kit-7-Fan-Kit-/265002101553?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46 890.l49286&mkrid=705-154756-20017-0

Also 🤭 how do I pm Louis19 I can't see anywhere on the mobile site layout to do it??

**sambb** · 05-08-2021, 05:57 PM

No AGU head/inlet mani has same side feed as our small port head. Direct bolt on except VVT will have to be killed off in the tune OR you can transfer the VVT out of your head into the big port direct bolt in. VVT can also be tuned to work dynamically like the Audi's rather than just for emissions cold starts. I have active VVT tuned into mine now. Its used to bring forward the spool in bigger turbo setups - can be done with stock ecu tuning.
Valve springs is more of an rpm thing. Stainless exhaust valves is more of a temperature resistance thing for when EGT's get right up there on these bigger turbos with big boost. If you're not wanting to rev past 6000 rpm+ (stock head and stock cams) then you probably can rule out the AGU head. Also you might need to weigh that rev ceiling you impose against your turbo choice as you probably dont want to go so big on the turbo side that it comes on at 3600rpm and then you are changing gears 2200 rpm after that as your rev band will be very short.
For me because I wont be revving above 6500rpm (at least not on upchanges!) and will hopefully be running E20-E85 (cooler combustion), then I'm going to see if I can getaway with an all stock head big port head. Educated risk because I dont have the budget to do anything else on the head. You might be in the same boat there.

**Akuma** · 05-08-2021, 07:06 PM

Yeah right. I might be more inclined to rev a bit more to keep full boost in the up changes. Wouldn't want to up change and be at 3000... But then again next tax session could have me etching for the head work this engine deserves👌.

Just looking at injectors at the moment and I'm thinking ev14 630cc should be enough they will be maxed out before the gtx3071r is but I'd rather re buy larger injectors than turbo... I'm leaning more towards the 30 for the extra head way if/when I want more later... I mean I wanted more from the RX7 at 450whp.... And the 30 is capable of 450-500whp as far as I know.

I know power delivery and band play a massive part in this but can we get 300-400whp to the road?

Before buying the polo I watched countless civic 1.6l 4-600hp cars and they flew without massive wheelspin, now assuming they were using semi slicks on the street

Will these injectors fit our rail?
4 Genuine Bosch EV14 60lb 630cc fuel injectors 1.8T Audi A4 TT VW Golf Jetta | eBay

Is it better/more cost effective to get a large port head and do the headwork later? I'm also trying to future proof as best I can. Buy once and buy right... I'd have a sour taste in my mouth if I had to do it twice... With the gt30 egt's are likely to be high enough to expect valves to be done I assume...

Also have you seen these intake manifold spaces designed to reduce the heat at the Mani? Some plastic poly something?

**sambb** · 05-08-2021, 11:20 PM

for wishbone rear bush:
SuperPro Control Arm Lower-Inner Rear Anti Lift Bush Kit for VW POLO 2001-2009 - Mk 4 9N

set it to max caster ie the pivot outer most.

for wishbone front bush:
SuperPro Control Arm Bush Kit for VW POLO 2001-2009 - Mk 4 9N

for the north-south 'gearbox' dogbone:
SuperPro Engine Steady Mount Bush Kit for VW POLO 2001-2009 - Mk 4 9N

stops the engine thrashing fore and aft. also makes gear changes a lot easier when you are up it.

If you do the above and a pair of bilstein B8's in the front then you'll be good to go. I have a pair of KW V3's that I could sell you to go in the back. They came out of my most recent car and could only have done 60-70,000km? I can find out for you. Also have have some KW rear springs (collar adjsutable too).

I have a vibratechnics drivers side engine mount spare. Just need to pick which one I want to run with. Also a passenger side one but I havent checked it over. It came with the car as a spare.

I also have a pair of subframes (wishbones fit into these) that have been reamed to take eccentric adjsuters. These take out any slop in the bolt holes and give you a bit of camber/caster adjsutment at the bottom. They come fitted with SEAT sport solid rubber rear lower control arm bushes. These were the gun LCA bush until the aftermarket poly ones came out. They are rubber but have no voids, are very stout rubber, centre position for the rear of the wishbone so no extra caster. Doing rear LCA bushes is an absolute assho1e. They need to be carved/cut out and the new ones put in with a press or a VW special tool. You might want to consider these subframes as they come pre done with top notch bushing, won't move around like stock subframes, and will give you some alignment adjustment.

If you havent already gotten an FPR, GFB do an adjustable one. Plug n play into the stock rail and allows gauge fitment for setting the pressure you need. You could probably just run on 3 bar provided your injectors are big enough. 4 bar fpr's will make your big flowing fuel pump work a bit harder in constant duty and maybe noisier becaus eof that.
Yeah those injectors are along the lines of what you need. If you run small port, there are EV14's that have an angled up spray. The fuel shoots upward at a certain angle to match the different small port shape. I'd have to look back at which ones you need as I cant remember. I also cant remember the o-ring to o-ring height needed for a small port. I assume thats the one though if its quoted for the Audi TT as its 'BAM' engine is definitely small port. You do need those plug converters too for our loom.
Large port might be a stretch to add into things with your budget. They are old eg mk 4 gti vintage and anything you buy will need a proper going over, valve seats, etc. Small ports are much newer and probably give you a better shot at a better core to begin with.
If you want one to get built off the car while you are still running around, I have two small port motors. One head has done 90,000 and the other 160k km. If you get stuck and cant find a spare let me know.
Yeah phenolic spacers are a bit of a thing but a fringe mod. You can always do it later. There's a lot of shonk sellers around too. I bought one and it was no where near my mani or port sizes so go figure.
If you want (and are on messenger) I can put you in contact with the UK tuner I use. He can advise you on turbos and the right hardware combo and give you an idea of what you'll be able to achieve.

**Akuma** · 06-08-2021, 04:22 PM

Yeah well I wasn't going to touch the rear end of things due to the budget but if you want to get rid of spares I'd be happy to talk deals. Maybe meet up after the lock down and we can sort through a few things and see what looks good. If I can get a good deal and it helps you too then we're both win win I just can't eat I to my budget much otherwise I'll be stuck with a half finished pos that isn't what I want.

I definately look into the bush kits you've mentioned but would any of your spares negate these front end bush kits?

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