77tsi thoughts

[JonP01]

TBH if I was looking for a runabout and not the performance of the GTI I'd be checking out the Yaris first. Toyota reliability and $130 capped price servicing. Although the Swift Sport is tempting for something Japanese, peppy and a fair bit cheaper than a GTI.

This advice is dubious in my opinion. I have test driven the current model Yaris and there is no comparison whatsoever between the Yaris and Polo. The Polo is significantly more refined and the performance is in a different class. The Yaris may go nicely at low to middle throttle openings but like so many small NA engine cars, when you need to floor it the throttle tends to act more like a volume control than anything else. This is completely in contrast to the 77TSI where when you floor it, the performance is actually there. My mother owns a Yaris and I drive it regularly. Once you get above 80 kmh, the performance difference between the Yaris and Polo becomes even more marked. As for the interior, the Yaris has a large quantity of plastics that have a cheap appearance, a hard feel and a particularly annoying reflective texture on the dashboard that makes driving distracting due to the reflections from the sun.

I don't think you can assert the capped price servicing argument either, since the Yaris still requires 2 services per year whilst the Polos currently for sale have capped price servicing and also only require a once-per-year service.

I would also question Yaris versus manual 77TSI reliability - the 77TSI manual seems to be one of the better cars from the VW group from what I have seen. As a family that has both a Yaris and a Polo in the garages, I can say that both have been faultless, though the Yaris has been off the road for a few recalls and disappointingly needed an expensive brake service after just 30,000 kms (brakes had begun to "bite" and were not consistent in feel). The body of the Yaris also loosened up considerably over the first year whereas my Polo's body feels as tight and taught as the day I took delivery of it.

As for the Swift Sport, whilst you describe the performance as "peppy" (seemingly to imply the 77TSI isn't) - there is very little difference between the stock 77TSI and Swift Sport in performance. Wheels has them about 0.4 second apart and I don't consider this to be a huge difference. And of course if one is inclined towards aftermarket ECU tunes, then the 77TSI becomes superior to the Swift Sport since it is difficult to legally get the same power increases from the Swift engine as it would be the VW turbo engine especially at a comparable price. Also, the 77TSI Polo can be optioned with the Sports Pack, at which point Wheels magazine describes it as a sub-GTI. The Swift Sport has also been criticised for things such as the gear change action whereas that of the Polo is flawless and feels superb.

[yokom46]

This advice is dubious in my opinion. I have test driven the current model Yaris and there is no comparison whatsoever between the Yaris and Polo. The Polo is significantly more refined and the performance is in a different class. The Yaris may go nicely at low to middle throttle openings but like so many small NA engine cars, when you need to floor it the throttle tends to act more like a volume control than anything else. This is completely in contrast to the 77TSI where when you floor it, the performance is actually there. My mother owns a Yaris and I drive it regularly. Once you get above 80 kmh, the performance difference between the Yaris and Polo becomes even more marked. As for the interior, the Yaris has a large quantity of plastics that have a cheap appearance, a hard feel and a particularly annoying reflective texture on the dashboard that makes driving distracting due to the reflections from the sun.

I don't think you can assert the capped price servicing argument either, since the Yaris still requires 2 services per year whilst the Polos currently for sale have capped price servicing and also only require a once-per-year service.

I would also question Yaris versus manual 77TSI reliability - the 77TSI manual seems to be one of the better cars from the VW group from what I have seen. As a family that has both a Yaris and a Polo in the garages, I can say that both have been faultless, though the Yaris has been off the road for a few recalls and disappointingly needed an expensive brake service after just 30,000 kms (brakes had begun to "bite" and were not consistent in feel). The body of the Yaris also loosened up considerably over the first year whereas my Polo's body feels as tight and taught as the day I took delivery of it.

As for the Swift Sport, whilst you describe the performance as "peppy" (seemingly to imply the 77TSI isn't) - there is very little difference between the stock 77TSI and Swift Sport in performance. Wheels has them about 0.4 second apart and I don't consider this to be a huge difference. And of course if one is inclined towards aftermarket ECU tunes, then the 77TSI becomes superior to the Swift Sport since it is difficult to legally get the same power increases from the Swift engine as it would be the VW turbo engine especially at a comparable price. Also, the 77TSI Polo can be optioned with the Sports Pack, at which point Wheels magazine describes it as a sub-GTI. The Swift Sport has also been criticised for things such as the gear change action whereas that of the Polo is flawless and feels superb.

Awesome response, thanks for taking the time to do that.

Thanks to everyone else as well, the information is reassuring.

Yeah it will be a manual for those asking.

[Barracuda]

This advice is dubious in my opinion. I have test driven the current model Yaris and there is no comparison whatsoever between the Yaris and Polo. The Polo is significantly more refined and the performance is in a different class. The Yaris may go nicely at low to middle throttle openings but like so many small NA engine cars, when you need to floor it the throttle tends to act more like a volume control than anything else. This is completely in contrast to the 77TSI where when you floor it, the performance is actually there. My mother owns a Yaris and I drive it regularly. Once you get above 80 kmh, the performance difference between the Yaris and Polo becomes even more marked. As for the interior, the Yaris has a large quantity of plastics that have a cheap appearance, a hard feel and a particularly annoying reflective texture on the dashboard that makes driving distracting due to the reflections from the sun.

I don't think you can assert the capped price servicing argument either, since the Yaris still requires 2 services per year whilst the Polos currently for sale have capped price servicing and also only require a once-per-year service.

I would also question Yaris versus manual 77TSI reliability - the 77TSI manual seems to be one of the better cars from the VW group from what I have seen. As a family that has both a Yaris and a Polo in the garages, I can say that both have been faultless, though the Yaris has been off the road for a few recalls and disappointingly needed an expensive brake service after just 30,000 kms (brakes had begun to "bite" and were not consistent in feel). The body of the Yaris also loosened up considerably over the first year whereas my Polo's body feels as tight and taught as the day I took delivery of it.

As for the Swift Sport, whilst you describe the performance as "peppy" (seemingly to imply the 77TSI isn't) - there is very little difference between the stock 77TSI and Swift Sport in performance. Wheels has them about 0.4 second apart and I don't consider this to be a huge difference. And of course if one is inclined towards aftermarket ECU tunes, then the 77TSI becomes superior to the Swift Sport since it is difficult to legally get the same power increases from the Swift engine as it would be the VW turbo engine especially at a comparable price. Also, the 77TSI Polo can be optioned with the Sports Pack, at which point Wheels magazine describes it as a sub-GTI. The Swift Sport has also been criticised for things such as the gear change action whereas that of the Polo is flawless and feels superb.

Couldn't have put it better myself. Spot-on description!

[brad]

The "Polo is better than the Yaris" is an expected response from a VW forum but it's a fair comment.

One of my work colleagues has a Yaris that he bought at the same time I bought my Octavia. (Bare with me, I realise an Octy isn't a Polo - More like a Golf Highline). He's a parsimonious type & took great delight in telling me about his capped price servicing for the first 3 yrs. Then we worked out what difference that would make for me doing my 25,000km/pa. For the Yaris - 7.5 services in 3 years. For the Octy 5 services. So it was like ~$975 & me was like ~$1750. He does 15,000km/pa so it was 6 yaris to 3 Octy = $780:$1050. So, if you do lots of km the cost difference can be significant.

Offsetting this, I average 6.7L/100km out of a remapped engine that has ~135kw/315nm compared to his 7.5L/100km with much lower power/torque.

The Octavia also has a lot more features (a few missing as well).

And yes, my Octavia is a much nicer place to do the mileage in.

PS: The dampers in the Polo are shockers. The spring control is negligable. This is easily fixed for about $1000 in parts & ~3 hrs labour.

[cappuccino]

They're actually using the same DQ200 as before, just with revised clutch plates, mechatronics and software. If they were using the DQ250 then yours would be a 6-speed and I can guarantee that yours isn't.

As for the rest of your post, I agree with the 77 TSI Manual combo – the DSG's are risky and the TDI's can be problematic (at least for us).
If we were ever to buy another Polo, we'd go for the 77 TSI manual for sure.

yeah i knew the gearbox was the same, they just updated the clutch plates, mechatronics and software. do they still call the updated version 200? out of interest, is there a different model between the previous and revised version?

definitely, 77TSI manual is the safest option, but you know, if you can't drive manual or your partner is no good with manual, might not have an option but get the DSG. Manual in the hands of a terrible manual driver is probably worse than a DSG. At least a DSG will be covered under warranty.

remember, when dealing with warranty / dealers, if they can blame it on you, they will. If you drive a DSG, its a bit hard to say 'you broke it because you don't know how to drive', can't exactly get putting the car into Drive wrong?

But being a manual, they will say something like, you don't know how to use the clutch and charge you for repairs if things go wrong.

So i think with manuals, VW or other, you do have to be a good manual driver hahaha... otherwise get a DSG or car with normal automatic transmission.

correct me if i'm wrong, but fewer and fewer cars will have a automatic box, most are moving to a dual clutch of some form. The japanese cars are probably the few left with automatic box. fords are dual clutch i think now.

[cappuccino]

The Yaris may be reliable and cheap to maintain but life suddenly becomes so depressing when you step inside the interior of one. Hard Plastics... Hard Plastics Everywhere! They also have the same level of driving refinement as a tractor.

hahaha too true. its just so boring and well... like a toyota... they are not known for their youth appeal! isn't there a joke about toyota drivers being on average 50?

her options;
-Fiesta -> ford reliability not much better, hate the look inside and out, looks like a gym shoe
-Swift -> feels cheap
-Mazda2 -> boring
-Polo 77TSI

Yaris -> you might as well take public transport.

i think if you are keeping a car for 3-5 years, you'd want to avoid the japanese small cars, you get really bored after a year.

but you know, each to their own, some people have no excitement in their life and a boring car is like the rest in their life. in that case, why not just get a camry?

sorta like alfa romeos, terrible reliability and depreciation, but when you have a car that looks that good and unique, who cares. break down in style!

VW don't make the most exciting cars, but compared to the other small hatchbacks on the market, the upmarket feel, style, driving is miles ahead. Only probably the Audi A1 could be another option, but really its just a Polo badged as a Audi with a $10,000 markup with one less seat and more options (which you pay through the nose with)!

If you want to be really exciting, the Mito have been cut down in price by heaps, use to be 35k ish, now 25k ish. Definitely different.

[alexaescht]

yeah i knew the gearbox was the same, they just updated the clutch plates, mechatronics and software. do they still call the updated version 200? out of interest, is there a different model between the previous and revised version?

...correct me if i'm wrong, but fewer and fewer cars will have a automatic box, most are moving to a dual clutch of some form. The japanese cars are probably the few left with automatic box. fords are dual clutch i think now.

Yep, it's still called the DQ200 and it's basically the same, except the clutches, mechatronics and software.

Indeed, most cars are moving towards Dual-Clutches – Ford has 'Powershift' Alfa/Fiat has 'TCT' and VW has 'DSG'. But the Tiguan 132 Pacific has a 6-speed torque converter and the Touareg and Amarok have an 8-speed torque converter, so some models still use standard autos.

[alexaescht]

If you want to be really exciting, the Mito have been cut down in price by heaps, use to be 35k ish, now 25k ish. Definitely different.

The Fiat 500 has also been made significantly cheaper. It now starts at something like $16k

[cappuccino]

Yep, it's still called the DQ200 and it's basically the same, except the clutches, mechatronics and software.

Indeed, most cars are moving towards Dual-Clutches – Ford has 'Powershift' Alfa/Fiat has 'TCT' and VW has 'DSG'. But the Tiguan 132 Pacific has a 6-speed torque converter and the Touareg and Amarok have an 8-speed torque converter, so some models still use standard autos.

what do you think of the Powershift? worse or better than DSG in terms of drive and issues?

[muli]

The Fiat 500 has also been made significantly cheaper. It now starts at something like $16k

14k drive-away

[alexaescht]

what do you think of the Powershift? worse or better than DSG in terms of drive and issues?

Never driven one, but I know that they've had similar problems to the Polo's DSG (shuddering etc.)

[alexaescht]

14k drive-away

Even better!

[Diesel_vert]

hahaha too true. its just so boring and well... like a toyota... they are not known for their youth appeal! isn't there a joke about toyota drivers being on average 50?

i think if you are keeping a car for 3-5 years, you'd want to avoid the japanese small cars, you get really bored after a year.

but you know, each to their own, some people have no excitement in their life and a boring car is like the rest in their life. in that case, why not just get a camry?

I wouldn't necessarily assume that people who have no interest in cars also have boring personalities.

Conversely, having an interesting personality isn't a prerequisite of being a car enthusiast.

Hey all,

My partner is in the small car market and is going test driving on Saturday,

her options;
-Fiesta
-Swift
-Mazda2
-Polo 77TSI

I own a 6R GTI and having read about the armada of things that could go wrong with the beast, I'm concerned that I should steer her clear of Polo's.

However, there is a tidy Red 77TSI for 19k at a local dealer with a manual box that beckons a test drive.

Thoughts?

Research is sometimes a good indicator of what to expect, but the test drive (preferably over the sort of roads you'll encounter the most) will be essential in shaping your partner's thoughts and impressions - which, at the end of the day, is the only opinion that matters.

Each car will have their own strengths of course (which will be easier to discern without the usual distraction of an automatic or automated gearbox), but whatever your partner chooses, I think the ones you've short-listed are fundamentally sound and are without major or critical defects. But again, best to reserve judgement after each test drive.

As mentioned previously, also consider the Fiat 500.

[yokom46]

I wouldn't necessarily assume that people who have no interest in cars also have boring personalities.

Conversely, having an interesting personality isn't a prerequisite of being a car enthusiast.




Research is sometimes a good indicator of what to expect, but the test drive (preferably over the sort of roads you'll encounter the most) will be essential in shaping your partner's thoughts and impressions - which, at the end of the day, is the only opinion that matters.

Each car will have their own strengths of course (which will be easier to discern without the usual distraction of an automatic or automated gearbox), but whatever your partner chooses, I think the ones you've short-listed are fundamentally sound and are without major or critical defects. But again, best to reserve judgement after each test drive.

As mentioned previously, also consider the Fiat 500.

Thanks for your input.

The fiat500 was considered but alas, the version that falls in her price range is (in my opinion) a tier down performance wise. And while performance isn't the main focus for her, 50 odd kw simply isn't enough for the motorway.

Honestly, I have a feeling it will come down to the Ford or the Polo, but she'll have a fun day testing them all anyway

Cheers guys, will let you know what she decides

[muli]

Re: 77tsi thoughts

Whats wrong with commuting in a boring car if you toy is 170-175hp and weights just under 200kg wet?
Suddenly anything else is "boring"

The fiat doesnt offer much for 14k and would be seriously gutless.

50kw, reminds me of my old daihatsu handy. 660cc 3cyl fuel injection at 42kw i think.
Never did find the limiter on it it just kept revving