Fuel

[ill0gitech]

Is the United 100RON more expensive than 98RON at other stations?
If so has anyone tested 100RON with 10% Ethanol for fuel efficiency?

The previous Fuel Efficiency tests I've seen with same model cars, and cruise control showed that E10 95RON and 98RON in that order were the best value for money

[Martin]

A few people on this forum have used United petrol & desiel only to have a fault light come on - fuel filter had to be cleaned

At the MRT Track day they recommended Caltex 98 followed by Shell 98

Ethanol emissions can damage the core of catalytic converters

The previous Fuel Efficiency tests I've seen with same model cars, and cruise control showed that E10 95RON and 98RON in that order were the best value for money

Ethanol has less energy than petrol, you have to burn more of it to achieve the same outcome, this needs to be factored into the price/economy equation - if the price differential is wide enough E10 can be the cheapest to run, but not by much

(If you have a turbo VAG car then 95 and 98 fuels would be the go)

[nomadx38]

Actually they had this exact kind of test done in the cars guide comparing between the performance/fuel economy and price of different types of fuel.

Any petrol that had a blend of ethanol was the most expensive to run because of the fact that is has less energy (not to mention screws up your engine.

91 still worked out the be the cheapest and 98 coming second. The test was conducted on a Holden captiva 7 (60l tank) because it can use up to E85 blend.

Fuel economy results are as follows:

E85 - 14.6l/100 (413km) @ $1.19
E10 - 11.9l/100 (514km) @ $1.34
91 - 11.1l/100 (536km) @ $1.36
95 - 10.7l/100 (569km) @ $1.44
98 - 10.2l/100 (600km) @ $1.50

Cost over 20,000km:

E85 - $3472
E10 - $3187
91 - $3017
95 - $3080
98 - $3058

Think the results speak for them-self!

[gavs]

Fuel

Checked with VGA and seeing it is they who provide the product warranty, not VAG then I would take their advice.

In fact if memory serves me correctly the owners manual might make mention of it also but I'm not 100% on that.

I'm all for the use of ethanol blend fuels but everyone always goes on about the use of non approved oils, it's much easier and far more common for dealerships to be ordered to take fuel samples. Do you suggest people tempt fate by using ethanol blended fuel during the warranty period?

[ill0gitech]

Think the results speak for them-self!

Agreed, except that the typical e10 is around 93-94 Octane (Shell)

I've not seen a test done with 100RON with e10, and would be interested in seeing it in a comparison

[Martin]

Actually they had this exact kind of test done in the cars guide comparing between the performance/fuel economy and price of different types of fuel.

Yes - I remember that test - $107 less to run 95 is compelling
It seems like a big price difference at the servo but mileage makes it work out ok
(Other tests have shown E10 to be marginally more cost effective )
Trouble is prices have changed, I have not bought 98 for $1.50 for ages
I just don't worry about price/value any more - 95/98 all the time

[nomadx38]

The price is sort of irrelevant because when the price of crude goes up ALL the fuel prices, so its not like 98 is the only one going up. I always put 98 in my car for performance and mileage. I used to get BP (and still recon it's the best!) But I usually get Shell because of the 8c off. I might as well use it, every time I shop I get a docket.

Also I don't know where your getting your petrol but even without and discount I average $1.50-1.60 p/l

[Martin]

The price spread between E10 and 98 has increased since that test which impacts the economy/value equation
The 10% ethanol may be providing E10 some insulatiion from crude price increases

I'm often paying $1.54~$1.56 for 98 - travel south and you can pay $1.64

[Diesel_vert]

Ethanol emissions can damage the core of catalytic converters

Source?

not to mention screws up your engine

As will putting diesel in car designed to run on petrol.

So like all fuels, it can damage the engine if used improperly,

Checked with VGA and seeing it is they who provide the product warranty, not VAG then I would take their advice.

In fact if memory serves me correctly the owners manual might make mention of it also but I'm not 100% on that.

I'm all for the use of ethanol blend fuels but everyone always goes on about the use of non approved oils, it's much easier and far more common for dealerships to be ordered to take fuel samples. Do you suggest people tempt fate by using ethanol blended fuel during the warranty period?

I personally avoid ethanol blends, but I don't do it for reasons of FUD.

If you interpret the facts as we have it, it would appear that VW models are suitable or compatible with E10, but VGA does not recommend using it.

If the vehicle is suitable or compatible with E10, why should the use of E10 petrol prove sufficient cause for VGA to deny a warranty claim because they don't recommend it? If they feel that strongly about it, why not explicitly state and prohibit the use of E10 blends? Is this stated in the owner's manual?

VGA should clarify their position - they should either allow or prohibit its use. If there are any exceptions that apply to certain models with certain engines either way, this should also be stated on their website. Lack of information hurts.

[Martin]

Ethanol emissions can damage the core of catalytic converters

Source?

It's often quoted in motoring articles, e.g:
E10 fuel a false economy

[Diesel_vert]

It's often quoted in motoring articles, e.g:
E10 fuel a false economy

Okay, I wouldn't exactly call that an authoritative source.

Lol, it looks as if he just put in that last line for fun.

[nomadx38]

Main reasons I don't use it: a ECU is tuned to run on petrol not ethanol which means it cannot take advantage of the higher flash point (higher RON / octane number) which means massive losses in performance and fuel economy - a double whammy

VAG allow it but don't recommend it. I'm to assume it MUST be able to run it as part of the euro 5> standards. They probably know themselves that it is not the best thing for a petrol designed car.

A petrol car is designed to ignite fuel vapor by means of a spark. Most "thin" fuels can do this, ethanol been one of them. In no way does this mean its meant for it or is good or it.

Diesel will not run in a petrol car at all because it is designed to be used in compression engines. The same argument could be used on Diesel engines, you cannot use petrol at all, just wont work BUT you can use kerosene which is a heavier fuel like diesel. Again doesn't mean it's meant for it or good for it, but it can use it.

[Diesel_vert]

VAG allow it but don't recommend it.

The manufacturer, VAG (Volkswagen AG), allow it.

It is the Australian subsidiary, VGA (Volkswagen Group Australia), who have indicated on the FCAI website that it's suitable, but on their own website, say it's not recommended.

[pologti18t]

I have used Liberty 100 in my "old tech" 1.8T Polo GTI (with APR reflash). It loved the fuel. Especially in the Alpine regions (high altitude). I put that down the the oxygenate effect of the ethanol. I didn't notice any undue impact on fuel economy whilst cruising.

[alexaescht]

Fuel

I'm sure no one really cares about diesel, but on my sister's TDI there's a big shiny sticker on the inside of the fuel filler cap that says "NO BIO DIESEL".
Every time there's some sort of engine fault with the car, VW Berwick try to blame it on bio diesel usage. Hahaha try to find bio diesel near us. Can you even buy it in Victoria?