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From my observation in our area the biggest tailgaters, lane changers and speeders are young ladies in small cars who must be first to anywhere. as well as those things they are frequently talking on the phone or doing almost anything but actually concentrating on driving the car.
I was taught to "Read the road" like look as far ahead as you can see So if the 5th car ahead brakes get ready to do the same.
End of Rant
This...and most of them are tapping away on their Iphones / Smart phones or touching up their facial panel work(s). The most annoying is the ones who cut lanes...not just one...I'm talking about two lanes and off traffic in order to be in the front of the lights, blaring music and all...lord and behold one time on Victoria Rd an Ambo wanted to get passed to which the numb-bat kept listening to her tunes until I threw a 5 cent piece at her window (mind you this was after 10 seconds trying to get her attention and the ambo pressing its horn...with sirens and lights *sighs*)... she finally realised an ambulance with lights and sirens was trying to get passed her.
I do hope whoever required that ambulance is alright.
I have had one "at fault" accident since I learned to drive and it was - in of all things - a Toyota Corona. I was near the crest of a hill and just over the crest, a car pulled out from the side of the road into the path of the car in front of me. The car in front of me collided with that car and I subsequently collided with the car in front of me. My fault then unfortunately at least when it came to colliding into the car in front. But in my defence, I was following a recommended following distance and the impact was very light (though the collision between the car in front of me and the car that pulled out was far worse). Additionally, that Corona was known to have terrible dynamics and very poor brakes. It even scored several lemons in the most recent Wheels magazine as one of the worst Australian cars ever built.
But the car's performance was far worse than that of my Polo, in terms of outright acceleration (I think the Polo is around 4 seconds faster to 100 and about 2 seconds faster over the standing 400). This is despite the power to weight ratios not being that far apart (Corona 72 kW at 1050 kg, Polo 77 kw at 1048 kg).
I tell the above story for two reasons. One is that in 2013, the power to weight ratio does not seem to tell a true story about a car's straight line performance. It does not take into account torque curves, drive train losses, the way in which the throttle "responds", aerodynamics or manufacturers being deliberately conservative in quoting power figures (stock dyno figures for the lower range 77TSI and 90TSI engines typically show they deliver significantly more power and torque than that quoted by VW). This is why a car like the Polo TSI - with such modest on-paper specs, performs far better than cars in earlier eras with much better theoretical power to weight ratios. And taking the Polo TSI as an example, I have compared it to a Ford XR5 turbo, and they feel the same as each other until you get to over 5,000 RPM. So if you kept to that limit, the performance is the same in terms of straight line performance. If anything, the Polo subjectively feels quicker with that RPM limit because the engine response to the throttle is more "instant", probably because it is a better balanced engine, has less overall friction and lower mechanical inertia. Sure, the XR5 is a very competent performance car and deservedly so, but I honestly doubt that many accidents occur with the engine RPM in the last thousand or so in the rev range.
Secondly, as the Corona tale demonstrates, you can have dangerous cars with poor performance. I know it is not 1986 any more, but the principals still apply. The perceived "safety" of a modern car to a novice driver is as much a combination of chassis competency, steering feel, suspension setup (for a typically poor public road), braking performance and driver aids as it is power to weight ratio.
I am not saying we should just forget about power to weight ratio. I still think a limit needs to be set, but so far as what cars remain ineligible or not below that limit, I would rather each new car onto the market be independently evaluated. I would like to see these evaluations carried out by some sort of part time committee established purely for the purpose. I was thinking, for example, that it might involve a motoring organisation such as the NRMA together with some specialised consultants. As for these specialist consultants, I would like for them to come from the ranks of respected motoring journalists, retired professional racing drivers and advanced driving instructors. Three people I would pick, for example, would be Peter Mackay, John Bowe and Peter Finlay. They would drive the cars and I know these three people would have the ability to determine which cars should be kept out of the hands of P Platers.
Power to weight ratio as I say in itself is far too misleading. It might let a car slip through the net that is incredibly safe and has such advanced safety features that it is almost impossible to get into serious trouble with whilst letting a low powered car through with terrible dynamics or poor brakes and a lack of secondary safety features. Then you also run into other issues, like manufacturers purposely reducing power and compensating with massive torque curves (which could actually be more dangerous than outright power since you are not needing to access the whole rev range to tap into the performance).
And finally, I hope to see more secondary safety features on cars in the future that will help further reduce accidents. I would like to see technology that prevents a car following another too closely (far easier said than done obviously) as well as different performances "modes" that would work similar to parental "lock" systems for TV, internet, etc. In other words, like the "Valet" modes for some ECU tunes, but obviously nothing so draconian. But I think it would be good, for example, to have a special mode that detects all the G forces and intelligently prevents them exceeding certain limits.
MY13 Polo 77TSI manual transmission Comfortline in Candy White - "Herr Marco"
Damn old people always wanting to restrict us young people. Yes yes yes ban the "young and therefor dangerous" driver from the powerful cars (...Polo, yeah real powerful) but when you drove your big 6L V8s when you were on your P's in the 80s that was fine, yeah no probs...that's fair right?
How about everybody can do what they want and if they wrap themselves around a pole that's there own problem. Also how about do the speed limit and/or get out of the right lane which you shouldn't be in anyway! That way I don't have to go up your ass...
They should penilise all groups for wrong doing not just P platers because they are an easy target. Yes I been a P plater (obviously) get annoyed at other P platers when they are in the right lane and shouldn't be, on the phone texting!, Face book or putting on their makeup. They should enforce this for all drivers including you full licenced drivers, who are therefor "the best" drivers on our roads...not.
If you want to be fair then they should enforce that any over 50s have to do re-testing every 5 years there after. I tell you, you would all FAIL trying to do the testing we have to do now. If I recall they did propose this some time ago and there was a massive uproar from the "OLD" driver community and the government was quick to drop it. But us P platers, oh no we don't get a voice...
Damn old people always wanting to restrict us young people. Yes yes yes ban the "young and therefor dangerous" driver from the powerful cars (...Polo, yeah real powerful) but when you drove your big 6L V8s when you were on your P's in the 80s that was fine, yeah no probs...that's fair right?
How about everybody can do what they want and if they wrap themselves around a pole that's there own problem. Also how about do the speed limit and/or get out of the right lane which you shouldn't be in anyway! That way I don't have to go up your ass...
They should penilise all groups for wrong doing not just P platers because they are an easy target. Yes I been a P plater (obviously) get annoyed at other P platers when they are in the right lane and shouldn't be, on the phone texting!, Face book or putting on their makeup. They should enforce this for all drivers including you full licenced drivers, who are therefor "the best" drivers on our roads...not.
If you want to be fair then they should enforce that any over 50s have to do re-testing every 5 years there after. I tell you, you would all FAIL trying to do the testing we have to do now. If I recall they did propose this some time ago and there was a massive uproar from the "OLD" driver community and the government was quick to drop it. But us P platers, oh no we don't get a voice...
And what licenses have you got apart from a very shiny new P
I have everything up to a Heavy rigid and also a Passenger Drivers authority and have had for many years.
Also have a Marine licence and can drive Loaders and Forklifts. Have spent several years driving Hamilton Jet Boats and Launches in New Zealand. Have owned 39 different makes and models of cars in my lifetime so think I am fairy qualified to comment.
When you gain some experience with both life and driving you may review your thoughts.
Have you done an advanced driving course so you can perhaps avoid the tree when going sideways 40k over the limit for the corner.
Bet you havent
The law is applied equally across all drivers but perhaps its because P plate drivers being obvious by both the sticker and their poor driving habits get caught more often.
I dont care if you wrap your self around a pole, just do it on your own and dont kill your mates or girlfriend OR ME whilst doing it.
The saying " Hire a teenager while they still know everything" comes to mind here
Some of us hold a current CAMs or similar FIA National (European tested) / International category license, who are you implying is old, inexperienced and/or possibly suggesting incompetence? (Myself, Hillbilly or all of us)?
And for your info I have a current P licence which I have had for 3 years now and including my L's for a total of 4 driving years and have NEVER had a single infringement or accident of ANY kind, more than I could say for most other drivers.
On top of that I have a forklift licence, semi rigged truck licence (up to 11tons or near abouts), boat licence and PWC endorsement (held since 12, and again never any infringements or crashes) and to top it off a stage 1 defensive driving course certificate. Want licence numbers as well?
I would go for a CAMs licence but I don't know where to apply for one down here in Melbourne...
I would also go to do the advanced dring course but since my DSG is playing up I don't really want to be pushing it too hard.
And I'm not saying any of you guys are incompetent drivers, lets face it if your on a car forum chances are you like cars and thus can drive them very well
I'm just saying old people in general like to run their mouth...
This would be some good reading for you and from there you can make a decision whether or not you'd like to attain a CAMs qualification for a specific category or not:
I dont know that driver training is an answer. It would just give you confidence to go even faster. Senna and Brock seemed to know a bit about car control but they still got it wrong even without the natural invincibility of a teenager.
Senna and Brock died (as have numerous others) while competing where speed was the primary goal (along with finishing, of course). This does not apply to normal road usage and I would be as bold as to suggest that those who drive in competition are more sedate in normal road usage as they aren't out to prove that they and their car are the bee knees.
I would go for a CAMs licence but I don't know where to apply for one down here in Melbourne...
Just join a CAMS accredited car club (PIARC is mine) and pay the money for an L2S to start with. This will let you do timed sprints - actual racing requires a helluva lot more but shouldn't be your initial foray into motorsport.
If it wasnt for some of your Elders going and dying for the likes of you we may well be all speaking Japanese.
Some would wonder if it was all worth it with comments like yours.
...haha right there in an old man rant. Always quick to look at past things that have happened but may I remind you the reasons we have cures for cancer and many modern advancements is because of young people who have fresh minds and think outside the box. You should be thanking us that you are not dead. Now that is taking it to the extreme but you know where I'm coming from. I also respect we can learn / learnt a lot from elder people but should give their opinion if its asked for, not forced upon us.
We could go at this all day but at the end of it why should we current young people be treated any different to you guys were when you were young? Answer that and you solve your problem...
I guess I have to be the mature one and end this before it goes any further because there are plenty more examples for both sides.
As they say "grown up, not old"
And FYI I always pay my respects to our fallen Anzacs every year in the city so don't you dare say I don't care! Also what's wrong with the Japs
Just join a CAMS accredited car club (PIARC is mine) and pay the money for an L2S to start with. This will let you do timed sprints - actual racing requires a helluva lot more but shouldn't be your initial foray into motorsport.
I dont care if you wrap your self around a pole, just do it on your own and dont kill your mates or girlfriend OR ME whilst doing it.
I still care even if he is just the only driver in the car, because the accident still gets factored into the stats which are used to determine car insurance / green slip premiums, plus there will be other costs to society (taxpayer funded) if the driver survives and is on a disability pension the rest of their life as opposed to having a well paid job that contributes to society.
MY13 Polo 77TSI manual transmission Comfortline in Candy White - "Herr Marco"
Also how about do the speed limit and/or get out of the right lane which you shouldn't be in anyway! That way I don't have to go up your ass...
You believe you are mature and have a responsible attitude, but it is comments such as this that precisely justify the existing restrictions on P Platers. Just because someone else is not driving well, disrespectfully or even illegally does not give you any sort of right to inflame the situation. A good driver in that sort of situation would actually keep away from a badly driven car and not antagonise the situation, then wait patiently for a safe opportunity to overtake. But you seem to want to tailgate them, putting both cars in jeopardy, inflaming an already bad situation.
Incidentally, as you should know, one can drive perfectly legally in the right lane if they are turning right at the next intersection, driving on a road with speed limit of 80 or below, or when overtaking.
Yes I know of these laws. You cannot be in the right lane unless you are turing off the road (within 200m - this is a big one, people stay way longer than 200m). Some do it for 1-2km. And yes you don't have to exit the right lane if its 70km and under or if its single lane (such as roads where it is possible to fit 2 cars besides each other but there is no broken line to decide the lane, instead its one big lane)
The law also states you cannot overtake on the left of a vehicle which means it is illegal to overtake someone going slow in the right lane to "safely" get around them. It is also highly recommended to keep up with the flow of traffic. This way people do not make stupid decisions to go around slow people and it makes merging easier for everyone
On top of that it is illegal to be 15km/h or under from the stated road speed.
I think I have a reason to be upset when someone is doing 80 on the eastern in the right lane and traffic is easily flowing at 100
Well look at you two go...
Licences all over the shop. Well done. Years of experience, well done.
So how does 1 judge a good or bad driver? Currently my frustration is with the people who indicate as they start changing lanes, people who don't indicate and (here it comes) the high number of women in SUV's on the phone (either in hand or the mouth is running and the concentration is elsewhere).
Going back some years I had a bad week where I got hit, then 1 had to emergency brake on 4 different occasions to avoid Taxi's doing crazy sh*t.
No age, gender, race or otherwise is without fault. Nomad, I agree that after a certain age people should be tested again, not surprised you got some feedback with your "run their mouth" comment. I'm sure this learning experience will help you season your forum experience too (to complement all those licences you are keen to tell us about).
Personally, no accidents in 11 years. Before that, well, not so good (few writeoffs, etc, none hoon or racing related).
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