Bluefin Superchip Tunes for Polo GTi

[noone]

Re: Bluefin Superchip Tunes for Polo GTi

Well said Greg. That post should be stickied in the tuning section. Lots of people buy based on features and theoretical support, but warranty is a potential headache no matter what tune you get. Becoming a very different game. Highly agree with the idea that some tuners put more effort into one vehicle than another.

[Bassik]

Ok that's a wealthful load of knowledge there. Gavs I'm always one to save money and the thought of spending $1000+ for a tune that essentially is pushing the limits of the engine I'm turned off. So if the bluefin tune is in fact a less intensive tune I would opt for that.


I've owned this car for a year now so the thought of adding a little more excitement is intreging.

I would most definitely would take this option if its safe and less stress on the cars engine. Keep in mind I'm not techo nor mechanic but I'm a car enthusiatist.

I'm guessing this would be a great option for me?

[alexz]

awesome reply. thanks for the insight.

[gavs]

Bluefin Superchip Tunes for Polo GTi

Ok that's a wealthful load of knowledge there. Gavs I'm always one to save money and the thought of spending $1000+ for a tune that essentially is pushing the limits of the engine I'm turned off. So if the bluefin tune is in fact a less intensive tune I would opt for that.


I've owned this car for a year now so the thought of adding a little more excitement is intreging.

I would most definitely would take this option if its safe and less stress on the cars engine. Keep in mind I'm not techo nor mechanic but I'm a car enthusiatist.

I'm guessing this would be a great option for me?

Not necessarily the case. I don't have time for an in depth reply at the minute but I'll try and shoot you a pm when I get a chance

[noone]

Bassik,

The way you word your comment seems to be a little off the way I think about it after having talked to a few tuners.

For me there are 2 key aspects of tuning a turbocharged engine, timing and boost. If you add more timing, you get more power. if you add more boost, you add more power.

Both of these in theory put more stress on components, then again, so does driving a car hard at all. The imposible question is how much is too much? Your modern engine (and even mine, derived from the 1.8T from the 90's) has many components to ensure that all is running well. We have temp sensors, boost sensors, exhuast gas sensors, etc, etc, etc. These all help the engine management stay in a safe zone, free from knock and leaning out.

Whilst an 'aggressive' tune runs a higher risk of causing damage, if the car is well maintained and the tune written correctly, then the real world risk is components life is reduced. For example, the turbo on a stock car might see 150k kms and on a tuned car, may only see 120k kms. Very basic and inaccurate example only.

I don't know the specifics of the 1.4 twincharge, but the reason I'd be wary of an aggressive tune on your car is due to the high number of issues encountered with oil, piston seals, etc. For my car, the biggest issue with an aggressive tune seems to be increased heat pushing the turbo-exhaust manfiold bolts out.

Tuners are not looking to make a tune that will damage a car, although its not impossible. The question is, are the parts up to the added power, boost, temps, torque, etc.

[Bassik]

Hmmm ok this makes me think. I guess what I'm reading from that is irrespective of the tune you get it's inevitable that your running higher risks on the car and its components. So in having said that does that mean its dependable on who tunes your car to get you the best possible performance/benefits?

Getting a bluefin is basically pulling a stock tune off shelf with little to no custom ability?

Gavs I will look forward to you PM thanks.

[Dutch77]

Hmmm ok this makes me think. I guess what I'm reading from that is irrespective of the tune you get it's inevitable that your running higher risks on the car and its components. So in having said that does that mean its dependable on who tunes your car to get you the best possible performance/benefits?

Yes correct.. which I think was basically what Greg and co are getting at above.

Anything that stresses components that little bit more does increase the risk, but that's what you need to weigh up when deciding what mods, if any, to make. Either way doing your homework like this is a good thing.

[jubei]

Bluefin Superchip Tunes for Polo GTi

my cars been sitting on stage 3 bluefin for awhile now, no issues (R). i dont understand why cheaper means crappier tune. what about marketing and hype.. and overheads?
ive had custom tunes on my previous 2 cars, xr6 turbo and a subaru.. all sorts of problems from the automatic gearbox cooking itself, and weird engine cut outs at high rmp.

bluefin probably did a lot of testing before they started shipping their units around the world.

if u have basic mods on ur car, u cant go wrong with bluefin.

[Bassik]

This is where I'm confused because I don't want a stress test on my car, pushing the limits. I'd rather something less aggressive and honestly if there was an option id take an 50% APR ,GIAC etc increase for half the price. I'm to reserved in prolonging the cars resale value.

So is it easy to restore back to stock undetected to a potential buyer?

[LunchboxVRS]

This is where I'm confused because I don't want a stress test on my car, pushing the limits. I'd rather something less aggressive and honestly if there was an option id take an 50% APR ,GIAC etc increase for half the price. I'm to reserved in prolonging the cars resale value.

I think you need to talk to the tuners and make up your own mind. Don't get yourself confused between pushing the engine to the limit and a simple tune to tidy up the factory tune. For example if you look at veizu they offer a street tune (for better use of the term) and a track/race tune which in itself is still not on the limit but close still keeping it safe. Manufacturers are inherently very conservative in tuning, hence the amount of fuel most vw spit out on takeoff. And not all tunes are about power, but drivability. You don't have to raise the power or torque, juts place it where it's used most.

[Bassik]

I think you need to talk to the tuners and make up your own mind.

Yea maybe I do because's theres Stage 2 tunes and 3 etc.

I just like the fact I can change the tunes myself rather then taking it to a mechanic each and every time.

Might do a light research on the bluefin for 6R

Found this, although it's going to be one sided of course but still a good read:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mybluefin.com.au%2Froadtest%2Fsuperchips_polo_gti.pdf

[Greg Roles]

You guys stress too much. Any public tune is going to be plenty safe. Most Stage 1's are stock boost levels, perhaps a psi or two more at peak. VERY safe. "All out" tunes are 4-5 psi perhaps, still well within safe realms. There is PLENTY more to be had beyond this, but yes it becomes risky, and no tuner wants problems / bad feedback / expensive repair bills. I have a tune on my TDI they use on the UK TDI race cars, it isn't available to the general public due to the risk factor.

Of the hundreds of cars tuned across the community per month, how many blow up? I am sure the owner would wail about it.....

Hardly any.

[Bassik]

I'm thinking about getting it only coz its rather cheap and I love the fact you can revert back whenever. Question is that if I want to take the car into a VW service centre and revert back to stock tune will VW know that I had a tune previously?

[LunchboxVRS]

I'm thinking about getting it only coz its rather cheap and I love the fact you can revert back whenever. Question is that if I want to take the car into a VW service centre and revert back to stock tune will VW know that I had a tune previously?

Yes. I would say the box just swaps it back to the original tune. The counter in the ECU will go up anouther number. Some one will corrected me but I'm pretty sure there's a little more involved to resetting the counter then simply just reverting back to stock

[Guy_H]

Virtually all big name "internet" tuners buy "basic" tunes from one of three major tune wholesalers worldwide. This tune can be considered a "starting point" tune, and is generally around most "Stage 1" offerings. Each tuner may then decide to spend time and money to tweak it to get that last bit of power, response and to adjust for fuels and temps etc. Different tuners invest different amounts of time perfecting tunes, and nobody has the best of everything. APR is obviously strong in the VAG style cars as it is what they focus on. Herrods in Ford, Walkinshaw in HSV etc etc. Custom Code have invested in the DPF side of things, and they have the best tune there period - they invested the time. Viezu invested the time to be able to adjust the DSG quite obviously via the engine ECU. Every brand has its unique strengths.

Real time dyno tuners like Parso Rex tune a base file in front of you, and perfect it on the dyno. They don't need to buy a wholesale tune, but they sure can, and just because someone has a dyno doesn't mean they aren't flogging one from Europe off a server. Other companies like Viezu tune your own base file - over the internet - and have a technician tweak your base file in real time, and at times this needs local dyno time as well to perfect. If it was just off a server we wouldn't wait a few UK hours for it!!! The end result is the same, the files are basically tweaked the same ways - more or less - but the WAY it is done differs.

All that said there are not really any real tuning secrets - of course everyone has their points of difference - APR with the stalk, Bluefin UK at the price, GIAC with the numbers, Viezu with Insurance and free retweaks etc etc- we all basically offer the same result +/- 5% at the pointy end. But the numbers don't come for free, a mild tune will be pushing stockish boost, an aggressive tune is often way up in the boost range, sometimes scarily so. Most tunes stick to a safe upper end, and they will all have similar numbers despite all the wars we often have. Companies all copy each other anyhow, I know various HQ's sample each others tunes, encrypted or not, and know for a fact some of the Viezu tunes have been nicked here in Australia. Hilariously some of these "borrowers" bag the hell out of Viezu publicly.

If you are on a budget and want bang for buck - buy a UK Bluefin, no question. It may be a milder tune though, so worth checking.

If you want to get amongst the pointy end, you will be spending a grand or so, and there are several offerings. The differences narrow.

At the top of the market you get very clever tunes, with clever features, and usually great results, but again, nobody has the best of everything. I represent one brand, know where they are incredibly strong, and where they aren't. I have referred queries to all the tuning brands, depending on circumstances, from local dyno tuners like BPS and Parso, to Bluefin, DNA, Custom Code, GIAC even APR shock horror!

Nobody has the best of everything. We all have certain features, and it's THAT which you should shop on.

Local support, runs on the board, and a real, live person ( the actual tune technician preferably ) to assist if anything goes wrong is in my opinion the biggest thing. Plenty of stories of UK supplied handheld programmer cars being bricks for a week or two whilst they try and sort it out. But then ALL tuners have their problems, if you tune enough cars, it's a matter of time. No brand is spared that.

Just my very humble opinion, and apologies for the huge post.

Greg, I know you are relatively new to the tuning market, and you have edited your original post to remove some details. Essentially some information is correct, but some is incorrect & misleading.

The tool you originally spoke of (Alientech) gives people or "tuners" access to the files, broken down & identified (ie boost tables are here & here is X & Y to work on), it makes it realtively safe & easy to "tune" a car - all the hard engineering work of cracking the ECU, doing the checksumms, the can protocols for reading & loading have all been worked out by Alientech.

here is an example of that tool: (You can see they even advertise EGR & DPF delete files, ready to go).

Alientech Kess V2 ECU Remapping Chiptuning System DPF EGR Delete Removal | eBay

Now the big difference between "tuners" that have to use these tools, and some other tuners, is you only have limited access to a set number of tables - and your tuning is limited to what the tool allows you to access.

This is where APR differs (And Revo & Possible GIAC too) - APR have their own electrical engineering department (numbering in excess of 15 engineers at the moment), these are computer boffins who have the job of breaking down & mapping out the entire ECU's contents, and all the relationships between. Once this is done, they then build tools for the calibrators (a different team of engineers, generally mechanical engineers) to allow them to start manipulating the tables - often spending hundreds of hours on each engines family's calibration.

One tool they also build & use in house is ECU explorer, this is an extremely high speed engine data logging tool that needs to be directly wired into the engine CAN harness. VCDS, as great a tool as it is, is simply way to slow (and limited by number of variables) to enable anybody to calibrate & fine tune anything. Part of the reason is VCDS must log via the CAN Controller & access that via the OBD port.

Now remember, these are all built in house (here is a small video of it in action)

A good example of the extra miles taken to get a product to market - When the Twincharger motor was released (Not available in US), APR flew 3 engineers over for a month to work on this vehicle, and the ECU's. This included a months hire of a dyno.

In essence, what this boils down to is the quality of the tune. Look at the power curves, look at the torque curves - that's what is important, how that power is delivered (not discussing the safety side, which is another whole chapter), and support & back up is also a separate issue.