6R GTI uprated brakes, what are my options?

[Tsuku]

Hey all, I attended another track day today and sort of ruined my front brakes by keeping on driving after the brakes turned soft and spongy. Was having too much fun to stop, so I drove with the help of the emergency brake booster. Now the front discs and pads are goners. Picture: http://pihled.kuvat.fi/kuvat/Sekalaista/PA092441.JPG

I'm thinking about getting better brakes. What are my options? Any cost effective OEM upgrades, keeping in mind the 5x100 PCD? I hope the Audi (R)S1 comes soon, as those will likely fit on the Polo. What about Brembo/AP Racing/Movit etc. Any of those have kits for the 6R and how much are they?

Here's a clip of me at said event.
[YOUTUBE]KxqlwI73Vrs[/YOUTUBE]

[gavs]

Most older 9N3 setups wil bolt directly on but you have to ask yourself, for the cost involved and the added rotational mass (possibly) will the upgrade be worth it? Honestly, the best upgrade to do first is much better pads (the stock ones are crap so no wonder they burned out so quick!) and better fluid. If you're still not happy, ALcon for on save weight by over 50% compared to stock and are a 4 piston (i think) front upgrade.

Don't forget about your rears too while you're at it!

[Azzamataz]

Are the brakes on the GTI exactly the same as on others like 77tsi?

[gavs]

No.

The GTI runs the FN3 package which has a separate caliper and bolt-on carrier, the others have a fixed caliper carrier (also something to consider as to increase the caliper and disc size, you will need GTI hubs etc!) the the caliper slides along. The GTI also runs a 288mm diameter disc, the others have 232mm I believe, a carry over from the Mk4 Golf.

Azzamataz, to answer the question you are already thinking, It will cost a fortune at this stage, just go with better pads and fluid, then down the track when there's a few wrecks out there, then change over the hub assembly etc if you want bigger brakes.

Tsuku, you can bolt on the 312mm setup off the Mk4 Bora 4motion / Audi TT with just a bigger disc and the corresponding caliper carrier (caliper itself is the same) but for the extra weight, not sure if it would be worth it.....

[noone]

better pads, fluid, rotors and look at the airflow. If thats still cooking your brakes, consider the impact of the ABS when tracking.

If someone is keen, I've got 312's on my 9N3 Polo I can part with (swap in Syd)

[Tsuku]

Thanks for the answers guys. Better pads and fluid it is, as I suspected.

One more thing. These K-Sport and D2 BBK's are a lot cheaper (and thus tempting) than Brembo's/Alcon's/AP Racing etc and there must be a reason for that. Does anyone have any experience of these K-Sport/D2 Taiwanese BBK's? All I could find was adverts for them, no trustworthy testimonials.

TOYOTA POLO 304mm K Sport Brake Conversion VO21-7-304 Only £775.00

[Buller_Scott]

better pads, fluid, rotors and look at the airflow. If thats still cooking your brakes, consider the impact of the ABS when tracking.

If someone is keen, I've got 312's on my 9N3 Polo I can part with (swap in Syd)

going lighter, ben?

[gavs]

Honestly, aside from material technology, there probably isn't a huge difference in brake caliper construction. The pads and disc is where the majority of your force comes from, but they generate a lot of heat.

I'll elabourate later if I remember

[Tsuku]

Honestly, aside from material technology, there probably isn't a huge difference in brake caliper construction. The pads and disc is where the majority of your force comes from, but they generate a lot of heat.

I'll elabourate later if I remember

Do you mean that the stock caliper vs. above K-sport 6 pot difference isn't huge, or are you comparing K-Sport and AP Racing/Brembo etc?

I might go with the 312mm brakes, since I have to replace the discs and pads anyway, if they fit just by swapping the caliper carriers.

[gavs]

I mean between aftermarket, but that is in the design, not the construction. Brakes discs dissipate heat through friction with the pads. The benefit of going to a bigger disc is to create a larger swept area for the pad to bite into but also to have a larger surface area to dissipate the heat. This generally comes with a trade of with greater rotational mass from the increased weight of the larger disc, but also that mass is transferred further away from the centre of rotation, thereby you need more force to arrest that motion which is why you go to a multiple piston caliper. A good caliper will dissipate the radiant heat off the pads and rotor, a bad one will become a heat sink. Why is bad? Because your barke system us hydraulic and being hydraulic it requires pressurised fluid to operate effectively. If your caliper doesn't dissipate the heat, it can boil the brake fluid.

This is bad because once brake fluid boils it becomes a gas and in a conventional brake system on a car, you cannot develop enough pressure to compress this gas enough to provide clamping pressure, hence one reason you can get a long pedal at a track or a downhill mountain run.

This is where the brand name settle come into their own because through motorsport etc, they have learned the best way to design a caliper to give the driver max performance. Slotted rotors etc, I won't go into that, I have previously written an at-length piece as to why these aren't always a cost effective mod to a road car.

In summary, if you want to go bigger, go aftermarket or I'd look at Porsche setups if you want to keep it in the VAG family some are direct bolt on I believe. Bigger isn't always better. If you want a multi-piston setup, try and get away with the closest size to stock you can. Alcon are at 328 from memory but that I think is with a 6 piston front caliper. Pads and better fluid will give you the biggest dollar:effect ratio but if it's not quite enough then by all means, go a multi-piston caliper and ensure you post pics of it! And stick with a reputable company in regards to things like brakes, these guys are in formula 1, Le Mans, Dtm etc. They know what they're doing

[Tsuku]

Thanks for the thorough explanation, gavs! Good thing we have 4-5 months of winter coming soon, gives me some time to deliberate on the choices and save some money before next summer's track days.