Polo GTI ECU flash done...

[etechremapping]

Not all big house tuners do bespoke tunes - you're right. But not all big house tuners lock their tunes either. Granted, some do. Some even boobie trap them.

Something like Lemmiwinks can give you these abilities you mention to fine hone - so I hear (not done it myself as yet)

And when these huge tuning house specialists, selling thousands of tunes a month, generally have way better engineers, technicians, hardware, software and backup and dyno's than say - a local dyno shop - And we have the ability to do bespoke mapping (it's rare, for example, for me to sell an off the shelf tune to be honest - I normally ask for blends/harder versions of each 'off the shelf' already prepared mapping matched bespoke to the specific driving style and mod set) - then I don't see how there could be a negative to them - if that's what you're intimating.

Granted some tuners will charge you to un-install mapping - we don't - nor, do I think, do DNA (check with John).

On a WRX 50hp is easy enough just from a remap - can a local dyno get you anywhere near that ? from what i've been told - certainly in North QLD you'll be lucky to see 20-25hp and will cost you $2000+. As for fine honing - this can be done should you feel the need but as you say - at an hourly rate. Or you could just log it and send it back to the big boys who'll happily (at least in the case of Viezu) fine hone it for you for free.......

[Lima]

thats a fair enough response re: airfilter and a generic map and its ability to take into account the variation...

Just coming from the world of Open ECU tunes, you pay $800~ for a tune thats done on a dyno, bespoke and specific to your vehicle, your able to go into it afterwards to Log and check all tuning parameters with an OBDII port cable and Romraider and take it to another tuner for whatever reason later on if you choose, and get it ECUFlashed again for further fine tuning at whatever hourly rate they charge.

A case in point with my Subaru, the previous owner had an Ecutek generic map/tune on it, that was locked, in order for another tuner to dyno tune it, i had to get it sent to chiptorque and wipe the ECU and reload an OEM map back on so that i could get it Open sourced tuned. So i have my reservations.

I'd say there's probably a much larger market for Subie tunes that has experience with the product. I had a piggyback ECU on my Mk4 GTI that, in theory, was tuned specifically to my car. However when booking it in they didn't even know the Mk4 GTI had a turbo. Why I didn't stop right there I'll never know. In that context an off-the-shelf tune for the Mk4 would have been a much better option and wouldn't have had the ongoing niggles I had with the apparently superior custom tune.

I get that a bespoke product is potentially better, but you're reliant on the ability/knowledge of the person doing the tweaks. If they know SFA about the car then what's the point?

[Corey_R]

I'd say there's probably a much larger market for Subie tunes that has experience with the product. I had a piggyback ECU on my Mk4 GTI that, in theory, was tuned specifically to my car.

I agree Lima. That's really what it comes down to. What the experience of a particular shop is. Even if said custom tuner has made the most powerful yet reliable Subaru tune ever, it doesn't mean that they will be able to apply that knowledge to create a custom tune for a Volkswagen which is better than a company who has tuned 100,000+ vehicles and bases their tunes on their championship leading race teams which specifically use the Volkswagen and Audi cars for which they're producing all the aftermarket software (and hardware in some cases) for.

Even some of the most modified VAG cars of members on these forums use brand name tunes. We're talking everything from upgraded/rebuilt DSGs, WMI, turbo upgrades, "upgraded engine internals"/"replacement uprated engines", etc - and still using tunes from companies such as REVO, GIAC, APR etc.

Take a look at the Volkswagen racing teams in the USA, UK, and even the Scirocco 24 hour cars. Look at where Volkswagen sourced their parts and software from when they've entered a factory car into a race or championships. Or even which companies Volkswagen have entrusted the run their motorsports campaigns for them.

At least to me, these factors and experience were important in selecting a tuner.

[Gambit]

Yes all true, but don't forget the fundamentals of tuning a car are universally applicable no matter what make, or model no matter how popular etc. To discount that would be an injustice to many a skilled tuner that understands and appreciates the complexity of mechanically engineering a tune. Of course there are different approaches to gain X amount of power and deliver X amount of emissions etc. But what is not dissimilar is the physics and/or mechanical physics at play. I am of the personal opinion that a specifically tuned ECU by these top tier tuners alluded to on a specific vehicle will always be the better option over a generic tune for a group of vehicles, disregarding the financial disparity required to reach that end goal.

[Corey_R]

Sure.

But it can be hit and miss. It's sometimes amusing, and also sad, to see the length of customisation some people go to, especially in the hardware, to end up with less than the "off the shelf kits" that the companies mentioned above have produced. As has been discussed to death in other threads, a company that does a "one off job" for a customer usually doesn't have the budget to produce several prototypes, and then test them and optimise them under a range of conditions. A company that is planning to produce a 1000 of them does.

Again, I'm not saying that every off-the-shelf vendor's products are perfect, or that it's impossible for a custom jobbie to be better, I'm just saying that it can be hit and miss, and certainly that is well reflected with what I've seen here and in other forums.

[Gambit]

I have seen the opposite in effect in the JDM tuning world, that in a vast majority of cases a custom tuned product by the top tier tuning houses has been substantially better than an equal in comparison off the shelf generic tune.
I am guessing that for the more tightly regulated Bosch OBD protocols/definitions its a different scenario and there is a genuine vested interest in keeping it that way. hint hint

[Corey_R]

As someone said above though, you often get these tuning houses which specialise in a particular brand, sometimes model even, and the number of their drivers who get work done is much greater. Like lets face it, do you know ANYONE who owns a R32 or R33 GTR who has NOT done upgrades? Supra owner? I can honestly say no to both. Even when you get to WRX's, I don't know anyone who owns one who hasn't at least changed the exhaust for an aftermarket one. Thus whilst these tuning houses are not technically "off the shelf products", by the time they've done 500 of them, they've got them pretty well sorted

[Gambit]

Exactly case in point, there are so many variations in upgrade needs that no one generic tune would be applicable in the JDM world, thus customisation and application to each specific vehicle is a must. The market is obviously different in the euro or VW world, but none the less the universal principals still apply. Horses for courses at the end of the day i guess.

[Corey_R]

Yeah true.

Keep in mind that in the VW world, even the "off the shelf" ECU companies don't have a single tune per vehicle (well, not the good ones). They all have multiple levels which are adjusted based on hardware modifications which matter.

Thus in Golf R/Audi S3 terms for example, you have ECUs (Stage 1 in APR or Revo terms) which are for stock hardware and allow enough automatic adaptability for things such as "regular intake" upgrades. You have Stage 2 ECUs which are for aftermarket downpipes with "motorsports cats" or full TBEs. Stage 2+ tunes which give significant midrange boost when upgraded High Pressure Fuel Pumps are used. GIAC also have an "Extreme" ECU which mates with a specific full intake replacement which is significantly larger than stock (and also requires all the previous hardware mentioned).

All three companies have ECU's available for upgraded "Stage 3 Turbos" (changing K04 to something like GT2781 etc). At least APR and Revo also have "Stage 4" ECUs which account for uprated engine internals on top of everything else.

So don't by any means think that the "off the shelf" companies are a "one size fits all" situation.
The advice I've often given people is look at what hardware upgrades you believe you'll realistically want to do in the future, and then look at a ECU company that will allow you to reach that goal - preferably without having to pay for "ECU upgrades" each time you upgrade your hardware parts!

That is no easy feat at this stage with the new Polo GTI, because we really don't know what will be available from who from a hardware point of view. Many hardware vendors ignored the previous Polo GTI - but I'd say that won't be the case this time! It just takes time

[Gambit]

Yeah will note and jeep that in mind

[Tsuku]

Really interested in this APR remap. Anyone had any problems? I guess I'm most concerned for the DSG as people say our 7 speed can't take much more than the stock 250Nm, but has anyone actually had the DSG break down?