VIC P-plater exemption 2011 Polo GTI

[Gladiator]

Hey everyone,
Has anyone here had their exemption application to drive a 'low powered turbo or supercharged car' approved from Vicroads to drive the 2011 Polo GTI?

Car details:
1.4L TSI 132kw, turbo & supercharged - 5 door
Power to weight ratio: Approx. 111 kw/tonne

I don't see why it shouldn't be approved as it meets all their requirements on the Vicroads website for a low powered turbo or supercharged car.
Vicroads link: Lower perfomance turbo or supercharged vehicles : VicRoads

Despite falling within the permitted power to weight ratio range (100kw - 125kw/tonne) and being a family type car (5 door hatch with child restraints and a 5 star Ancap) there has been talk that the 2011 Polo GTI doesn't qualify for an exemption.

[gavs]

I would say that if indeed it does not fall under exemtion rules, this would be due to it being determined as a performance car..... You can only ask though....

[pologti18t]

Did you read the application form??

A family type vehicle does not include
sports cars (eg a two door coupe) or the sports oriented

variant of a specific model range.

I would think that the Polo GTI would be considered the sports oriented variant of the Polo range.

[leasaunce]

doubt it. NRMA insurance categories the polo gti as a sports car.

[shauno]

Zero chance in NSW, even the Golf 118TSI is on the ban list!

[jamesatfish]

I always supported these type of restrictions on the strength of the same policies for motorcycle licencing, but it seems as always the powers that be are becoming over zealous in what vehicles are restricted and for what reason. For a vehicle such at the new Polo GTI which fits in the power-to-weight restrictions, seats 5 and is well equipped in terms of active and passive safety requirements to be banned simply because there are lesser powered versions of the Polo in the model range is just absurd.

Just to recap, if VW only sold the Polo GTI and not the others in the range, then the car would be eligible for the exemption. Instead because VW sell other cars in the Polo range the GTI somehow becomes unsafe for P plate drivers.

Of course I've just realised that when it comes time for my daughter to get her P plates we'll have to go out and buy her a car specifically to meet the requirements, as the cars we own (and which she will learn to drive in) are all on the banned list. I guess she'll be happy that the government is forcing Mum & Dad to buy her her own car - wish I had that excuse to run by my parents when I turned 17.

[pologti18t]

Just to recap, if VW only sold the Polo GTI and not the others in the range, then the car would be eligible for the exemption. Instead because VW sell other cars in the Polo range the GTI somehow becomes unsafe for P plate drivers.

The Polo GTi does 0-100km/h in 6.9 secs. That's faster (significantly) than a Commodore Omega.
I think its perfectly fine to restrict P Platers from driving this car.

Anyway, a line in the sand has to be drawn somewhere.

AFAIK... I dont think the ban on cars applied to learners (ie. supervised)

[Frostee]

The rules are a little different in Victoria

P plates & probationary prohibited vehicles : VicRoads

From 6 July 2009, drivers issued with a probationary licence on or after 1 July 2007 may (upon receiving an exemption) drive some lower performance turbocharged or supercharged vehicles. The definition of a lower performance turbocharged or supercharged vehicle is a vehicle with 6 cylinders or less that is:

turbocharged or supercharged with a power to weight ratio of less than 100kW per tonne
turbocharged or supercharged with a power to weight ratio between 100kW and 125kW per tonne and that is considered to be a family type vehicle (4 seats or more) rather than a sports type vehicle. A family type vehicle is a sedan, station wagon or hatch normally used to carry families/passengers with 4 or more seats and are equipped with child restraint anchorages. A family type vehicle does not include a sports car (two door coupe).

I suspect the Polo GTI would not qualify for exemption, and rightly so IMHO.

[Gladiator]

I would think that the Polo GTI would be considered the sports oriented variant of the Polo range.

The 2011 Polo GTI - 5 door should quality for exemption.
It satisfies the performance test (power-to-weight ratio) and satisfies the family type vehicle test...

Is it a family type vehicle?
1. Sedan, stationwagon or hatch normally used to carry families/passengers? Yes (hatch)
2. 4 seats or more? (4 seats)
3. Equipped with child restraint anchorages? Yes (5 star Ancap safety rating)
4. It is not a sports car such as a 2 door coupe. Yes
The 2011 Polo GTI – 5 door therefore meets the definition of a family type vehicle.

The only part where it fails is it being the sports variant.
Sports variant means nothing. It has nothing to do with the 'performance of the car' or whether it is a 'family type vehicle' (both of these have already been satisfied).
"Sports variant" can merely refer to the design of the car (Eg. Sports grill, sports exhaust, paintwork, etc.) as it is not a test of a car's performance or safety features.
To reject the 2011 Polo GTI because it is a sports variant despite it having satisfied the performance and family type vehicle guidline would mean you are saying that its sporty looks are likely to kill someone!

[Gladiator]

The Polo GTi does 0-100km/h in 6.9 secs. That's faster (significantly) than a Commodore Omega.
I think its perfectly fine to restrict P Platers from driving this car.

Anyway, a line in the sand has to be drawn somewhere.

The line has been drawn indeed and the 2011 Polo GTI falls within the permitted power-to-weight ratio range (100-125 kw/tonne). The Polo GTI is infact nowhere close to the permited power-to-weight ratio's upper limit coming in at approximately 111kw/tonne. The fact that is does 0-100km/h in 6.9 secs is perfectly fine under the law.

[dribs]

I really dont' think they will excempt the Polo GTI. The Golf GTI is already banned and the 118TSI, while not officially banned, does require permission first.

You can argue all you want, bold all the words all you want but at the end of the day, its up VIC Roads and its very highly unlikely it will be exempt -unless in special cases. You can prove us all wrong by going up to them and asking.

Until, then I honestly don't think there's much up for discussion. Its a sport variant of the normal Polo as others have already pointed out. Much akin to the Golf GTI, being a sport variant of the normal Golf's.

[pologti18t]

Who is stirring up all this debate anyway? P platers who have mistakenly ordered a car? Parents who may or may not own the car when their own children are of driving age?

The laws are their to restrict new drivers from having access to to high performance vehicles. I think the NEW Polo GTI is such a vehicle.
Guy from APR dyno'd the new Polo GTI and got 115kw at the wheels. To put this into perspective that a figure that Mazda MX5 SP would get. A Mazda MX5 SP was the locally developed turbocharged MX5. The Polo GTI has progressed from a warm hatch, in the last model, to a hot hatch similar in performance to a Golf GTI!

[jamesatfish]

Who is stirring up all this debate anyway? P platers who have mistakenly ordered a car? Parents who may or may not own the car when their own children are of driving age?

I'm stirring the debate from the 'parents who may or may not own the car when their own children are of driving age' camp.

To me the issue is that power-to-weight and 0-100kph sprint times are not the only measure of whether a car is 'safe' or 'suitable for P platers', but the rules applied by the various state RTAs don't take anything into consideration other than those factors.

Assuming the ACT doesn't go down the same path as VIC and NSW with their restriction lists, when my daughter is old enough for her P plates I'll buy her an early 2000s Porsche Boxster:

•~150kW and 7.6s 0-100 are sufficient for safe overtaking on the highway but not too much to get her into trouble - my Boxster S had a hard time getting to more than 180 down the straight at Eastern Creek and that had another 40+kW.
•2 seats means that she can only ever drive one passenger, greatly reducing the risks associated with peer pressure pushing her to drive in an unsafe manner.
•Standard PSM (ESP), ABS, multiple airbags and fantastic passive safety means a greatly improved chance of surviving a crash should one occur.
•German reliability hopefully means less chance of breakdowns or other mechanical issues

My first P plate car was a (then new) Mitsubishi Lancer 1.5L coupe of roughly the same vintage as the Boxster outlined above. Whilst it would have been perfectly legal for me to drive that car under the new restrictions, there is absolutely no way that anyone can convince me it is a safer vehicle than the Boxster. No airbags, no ABS, no ESP, rear drum brakes(!), 5 seats to cram full of teenage mates, very poor passive safety (tap the roof and it sounds like tinfoil stretched across the A pillars). The lack of power didn't stop me from driving it like an idiot, reaching stupidly unsafe speeds or otherwise pushing it well beyond my abilities should anything have gone wrong, and if it had gone pear shaped the outcomes would have been a whole lot worse than the same crash in the Boxster.

My issue with the Polo GTI ruling is exactly as above. How can it be that a 2011 model VW Polo with full electronic safety features and fitting within the RTA's own power-to-weight restrictions can be considered less suitable for a novice driver than a late 90's Japanese car with nothing but thin sheet metal and immature skills between the driver and a crash?

[Gladiator]

Who is stirring up all this debate anyway?

The laws are their to restrict new drivers from having access to to high performance vehicles. I think the NEW Polo GTI is such a vehicle.

This thread is rather more aimed at highlighting the inadequacies of the Vicroads low powered turbo charged or supercharged exemption vehicle screening process, in particular the words "sports variant" rather than critisizing the reasons any buyers/owners may have for wanting an exemption for the 2011 Polo GTI.

Yes the laws are there to restrict new drivers from having access to high performance vehicles and the Polo GTI is not one of them. Lets look more closely, the Polo GTI comes with a tiny 1.4 litre engine and an additional turbo and supercharger unit to give it that extra near 2.0 litre performance. Can a 2.0 litre, 5 door hatchback be called a high performance vehicle???

Let me make this clear, Vicroads has NO quarrel with this car in terms of its performance and agrees that yes, the Polo GTI is a low turbo charged/supercharged vehicle (111kw/tonne falls within their 100-125kw/tonne range).

What Vicroads may appear to have a problem with it is it being the sports variant.
To put it in context as it appears on the exemption application form is that the vehicle must not be designed more for sports performance than as a family type car.
Under Vicroad's power-to-weight ratio test, the Polo GTI does not qualify as a high performance vehicle but as a low powered turbo/supercharged vehicle (not designed for sports performance).
If you have any doubt as it not being a family type car, please read my earlier post.

[pologti18t]

If you have any doubt as it not being a family type car, please read my earlier post.

You just keep going don't you

Evidence 1 from the Vic Roads application form

A family type vehicle is typically a sedan, station wagon
or hatch used to carry families with 4 or more seats and
when manufactured was equipped with child restraint
anchorages. A family type vehicle does not include
sports cars (eg a two door coupe) or the sports oriented

variant of a specific model range.

And they even give you some examples of 4 seater sedans that DO NOT match the criteria.

MAZDA 6 MPS 5D SEDAN 4 2261 cc TURBO F/INJ 6 speed Manual

If you do the sums you will find that this vehicle has a power to weight of 118kw/tonne.

So, I think ViCRoads has it covered in this situation. It's perfectly obvious what that are trying to achieve and the Polo GTI does not
meet the criteria of a low powered turbo car by their definition.