Towing a Camper Trailer

[Rocket36]

So who tows a camper trailer?

The VW towbar has a low ball limit, 90kg from memory, which isn't great.

Looking for a decent after market towbar setup so I can actually tow something like a Jayco Expanda 14.44-4. Because the VW one won't let me.

Cheers.

[doc_777]

The tow bar limits set by the vehicle manufacturer can’t be increased by an aftermarket tow bar manufacturer. You are stuck at 90kg tow ball mass.

It sucks that VW upgraded the Tiguan’s tow ball mass numbers but didn’t budge on the Passat - and it’s the same MQB platform - so I’m guessing the engineering considerations would be similar

[Rocket36]

I'm sorry what? The CAR manufacturer sets the TOW BALL limit for ALL the tow balls in the world now do they? What am I missing here?

How does this Swift Expression have less than 90kg ball weight?
Passat Towing Tandem Axle Caravan

[doc_777]

That’s the law in Australia. Been that way for about 20 or more years. Maximum towball download, maximum braked, and maximum UNbraked mass (max 750kg - many vehicles are less) are all set by the manufacturer of the vehicle. Any towbar manufacturer can specify maximums UP TO AND INCLUDING those maximums, but not greater.

[Rocket36]

So this is yet another stupid antiquated Australian thing? *sigh* Like when ISOFIX car seats were actually illegal! Watching that video you'd think the Passat has no issues towing a camper trailer.

[doc_777]

Dunno which jurisdictions that law exists in. But seeing as though in the UK the towing limits on the Tiguan weren’t upgraded (as they were in Australia), I reckon that law exists (in effectively similar form) throughout the UK and the EU as well.

[Rocket36]

Dunno which jurisdictions that law exists in. But seeing as though in the UK the towing limits on the Tiguan weren’t upgraded (as they were in Australia), I reckon that law exists (in effectively similar form) throughout the UK and the EU as well.

So how is that Passat able to two that Swift tandem caravan?

[doc_777]

So how is that Passat able to two that Swift tandem caravan?

not sure what you mean? Plenty of Euro caravans have what many Australians think are small towball weights - 75kg to 90kg region isn’t unusual at all for many of their tandem vans. They believe in centralised mass as one of the primary keys to caravan stability.

[Rocket36]

They believe in centralised mass as one of the primary keys to caravan stability.

Um that's because it is! Are you saying that's not how it is in Australia? I mean it's fairly basic engineering to get a trailer to be evenly balanced when it's horizontal to the ground (single or double axle) to the point where you shouldn't need to put the jockey wheel down on double axles. Then when you hitch it up, you make the necessary adjustments to the hitch setup to two horizontally. The tow car should be pulling, not holding one end off the ground.

[Guest001]

Um that's because it is! Are you saying that's not how it is in Australia? I mean it's fairly basic engineering to get a trailer to be evenly balanced when it's horizontal to the ground (single or double axle) to the point where you shouldn't need to put the jockey wheel down on double axles. Then when you hitch it up, you make the necessary adjustments to the hitch setup to two horizontally. The tow car should be pulling, not holding one end off the ground.

Hmm you obviously arent up to speed with towing dynamics are you If you have no weight on the ball the van is subject to sway and yaw and that very fact got three people killed a few years ago

Read this and learn Jong Coronial Report.rtf - Google Drive

and this perfectly tells you why your theory is wrong


Watch this video and you may understand

YouTube


What SHOULD be and what needs to be are two different things

[Guest001]

That’s the law in Australia. Been that way for about 20 or more years. Maximum towball download, maximum braked, and maximum UNbraked mass (max 750kg - many vehicles are less) are all set by the manufacturer of the vehicle. Any towbar manufacturer can specify maximums UP TO AND INCLUDING those maximums, but not greater.

You are factually incorrect. A classic example was in 1996 when Toyota intoduced a higher limit for the vehicle and a new bar with a capacity of 3500kg It also fitted the 1995 model which only had a 2500kg tow limit.

They refused to up that limit forever

A towbar manufacturer can make a towbar that exceeds a vehicles capacity and you can fit it BUT the ADR RULES say this



The towing limits of a vehicle are

" The limit set by the manufacturer of the vehicle or the Towbar maker WHICHEVER IS THE LESSER"

So Vehicle limit 1500kg towbar 1800kg Limit is 1500kg

Vehicle limit 1500kg Towbar 1200kg Limit is 1200kg

The MAXIMUM BALL weight is the limit set by the manufacturer

Vehicle limit 90kg Towbar 150kg Limit is 90 Kg

That is the law

Euro vans are built differently and so get a lower ball weight. They are also built lighter using different materials tobe able to do this.


Also a vehicle may tow a van with a higher ATM than its legal limit provided that at the time of towing the van does NOT EXCEED the vehicles towing limit.. That is not fully loaded.

Have had a fair bit of towing experience with a 25ft 3000kg van on and 18 month trip around the country

[Rocket36]

In terms of towing dynamics and safety, the safest is for the hitching point to be over the rear wheels. This was figured out very early on with trucks and has become the standard. Also 5th wheel towing.

In terms of weight distribution and yawing, having caravan weight focused over the axle(s) of the caravan is the safest. Of course there has to be some weight on the tow ball, but this should be minimal. I think it must just be a case of Australia being behind the 8 ball yet again.

Caravan Stability Demonstration

[Guest001]

In terms of towing dynamics and safety, the safest is for the hitching point to be over the rear wheels. This was figured out very early on with trucks and has become the standard. Also 5th wheel towing.

In terms of weight distribution and yawing, having caravan weight focused over the axle(s) of the caravan is the safest. Of course there has to be some weight on the tow ball, but this should be minimal. I think it must just be a case of Australia being behind the 8 ball yet again.

Caravan Stability Demonstration

You didnt read my post did you as I linked to that video previously A 10% minimum is suggested as safe for an Aussie van

My loaded weight was 2965 and ball weight was 310 with a WDH and it travelled lovely. Without the WDH it was a pig and unsafe

[Rocket36]

I'd use a WDH regardless of the van type. It just makes everything ride a whole lot better. (and therefore safer)

OK, who arbitrarily says it must be 10%? Because a percentage is exponential! Which is ridiculous. A 5,000kg trailer (towed by a RAM 3500 for example) doesn't need 500kg worth of downward pressure on the ball to be "safe".

[Guest001]

I'd use a WDH regardless of the van type. It just makes everything ride a whole lot better. (and therefore safer)

OK, who arbitrarily says it must be 10%? Because a percentage is exponential! Which is ridiculous. A 5,000kg trailer (towed by a RAM 3500 for example) doesn't need 500kg worth of downward pressure on the ball to be "safe".

Well all I can say is that I have had experience and you havent it seems so i will leave it at that as you seem to know it all. You wont need a WDH with a1400kg van anyway and you would rip the arse out of a Passat using one