R36 BBK options

[Timlin]

Um, well, I disagree with you. There's no ego in any of my responses, just stating the facts from a point of view of someone who actually has the VWR-BBK and has also had the OEM brakes and who can compare one package with the other - however, criticizing something that you've never owned/tried/used is just, well, pointless as you have no facts, just unfounded and baseless opinions - and that's fine as long as you're not stating these opinions as "facts".

Regarding affordability - how is this either offensive or egotistical? One may simply "choose" not to afford them... I make no statement on anyone's socioeconomic status here! There is no argument in this thread from what I see/read, just some facts and then some unfounded opinions - that's it.

Rgd's


AT

There's a bit of ego in some of these responses. Jakey & I never criticised anybody. To bring affordability into it & criticising for choosing to improve the calliper appearance is hypocritical.
I do many mods, and do it myself for the love of it. Obviously it's not financially rewarding, but value for money comes into it. I won't spend $6k on an imported exhaust but I will do mods to it for max reward. I still have to consider that one day I'll move it on

[brad]

Regarding affordability - how is this either offensive or egotistical? One may simply "choose" not to afford them... I make no statement on anyone's socioeconomic status here! There is no argument in this thread from what I see/read, just some facts and then some unfounded opinions - that's it.

I believe he was referring to my statement that the aesthetic caliper covers were expensive & did nothing for braking performance.

[Jakeys]

Um, well, I disagree with you. There's no ego in any of my responses, just stating the facts from a point of view of someone who actually has the VWR-BBK and has also had the OEM brakes and who can compare one package with the other - however, criticizing something that you've never owned/tried/used is just, well, pointless as you have no facts, just unfounded and baseless opinions - and that's fine as long as you're not stating these opinions as "facts".

Regarding affordability - how is this either offensive or egotistical? One may simply "choose" not to afford them... I make no statement on anyone's socioeconomic status here! There is no argument in this thread from what I see/read, just some facts and then some unfounded opinions - that's it.

Rgd's


AT

There is a distinct difference between an opinion and a fact. If I say I don't think they're worth the cost, that's an opinion, that I am entitled to. It is fully founded. If I say "BBK's do not perform better than stock" that's a fact and that can be unfounded and inaccurate, and you'd be right to take up arms over it. But I never said that, I simply just said I think that they are too expensive for a daily and the benefit isn't worth it. You clearly think otherwise, that's fine, I have no issue with that, I never criticised you, but it's a public forum, my comment is fully valid.

I'm not suggesting you should sell your BBK, you're clearly very happy with them. But this is a forum and I stand by what I said, which was just a perfectly valid opinion, equally as valid as your suggestion that the OEM retainers are not worth the money. Nobody has said anything unfounded here.

Also, regarding "never owned/tried/used" as being a requirement for being able to comment is ridiculous. I don't need to try the BBK to know I don't want them. This came up when I debunked the Sprintbooster as not doing anything for performance, people were saying "You don't know until you've tried it" even though the theory behind it was well understood, then I did try it, debunked it in VCDS as a total placebo, my opinion beforehand was no less valid.

[Timlin]

Whatever...

[XXX-1.8T]

There is a distinct difference between an opinion and a fact. If I say I don't think they're worth the cost, that's an opinion, that I am entitled to. It is fully founded. If I say "BBK's do not perform better than stock" that's a fact and that can be unfounded and inaccurate, and you'd be right to take up arms over it. But I never said that, I simply just said I think that they are too expensive for a daily and the benefit isn't worth it. You clearly think otherwise, that's fine, I have no issue with that, I never criticised you, but it's a public forum, my comment is fully valid.

I'm not suggesting you should sell your BBK, you're clearly very happy with them. But this is a forum and I stand by what I said, which was just a perfectly valid opinion, equally as valid as your suggestion that the OEM retainers are not worth the money. Nobody has said anything unfounded here.

Also, regarding "never owned/tried/used" as being a requirement for being able to comment is ridiculous. I don't need to try the BBK to know I don't want them. This came up when I debunked the Sprintbooster as not doing anything for performance, people were saying "You don't know until you've tried it" even though the theory behind it was well understood, then I did try it, debunked it in VCDS as a total placebo, my opinion beforehand was no less valid.

So with VCDS what did you debunk exactly.

i find this interesting

Is there a way of adjusting the reaction time of the throttle with VCDS?

[Jakeys]

So with VCDS what did you debunk exactly.

i find this interesting

Is there a way of adjusting the reaction time of the throttle with VCDS?

That discussion will overtake this thread and spawn 5 pages. I will give you my findings, if you want to discuss further chuck me a PM and I'll have a chat with you, but I sold my Sprint Booster because I thought it was **** after testing it for a month and doing the VCDS analysis so I can't do further tests, I did keep the accelerator input graph though.

The throttle response time cannot be adjusted by either VCDS or Sprint Booster. Throttle sensor is instantaneous, it reads your input and measures it as a percentage, then obviously this is sent to the ECU and eventually to the engine. The delay is between the throttle position sensor and the actual engine and the systems involved there, it is inherent to the car. The sprint booster just attaches to the sensor, which has no measurable delay itself. The delay is elsewhere, therefore Sprint Booster cannot improve/remove it. What you can do is graph what that sensor measures in the various modes to determine exactly what the SB does and the answer is you see the race mode on the SB ramping up, up to about 80% throttle when stock is say 50% throttle, then for some reason it just flatlines at 80 until stock reaches 80% as well and then they both increase linearly. In other words, the last quarter of throttle travel, Sprint Booster does nothing. All it does is increase the percentage throttle reported to the car in the first three quarters pedal travel. You can do this without Sprint Booster using your foot.

It's fun to only need to use 50% throttle to effect 80% throttle, it makes you feel cool, but it is measurable identical to just pushing your foot a bit further. There are absolutely no other benefits to the system, including input lag. It cannot change the path of travel between the pedal and the engine, the car is the delay. The delay is not artificial/put in by VW for any reason and a little inline plug cannot change that.

[WazR36]

That discussion will overtake this thread and spawn 5 pages. I will give you my findings, if you want to discuss further chuck me a PM and I'll have a chat with you, but I sold my Sprint Booster because I thought it was **** after testing it for a month and doing the VCDS analysis so I can't do further tests, I did keep the accelerator input graph though.

The throttle response time cannot be adjusted by either VCDS or Sprint Booster. Throttle sensor is instantaneous, it reads your input and measures it as a percentage, then obviously this is sent to the ECU and eventually to the engine. The delay is between the throttle position sensor and the actual engine and the systems involved there, it is inherent to the car. The sprint booster just attaches to the sensor, which has no measurable delay itself. The delay is elsewhere, therefore Sprint Booster cannot improve/remove it. What you can do is graph what that sensor measures in the various modes to determine exactly what the SB does and the answer is you see the race mode on the SB ramping up, up to about 80% throttle when stock is say 50% throttle, then for some reason it just flatlines at 80 until stock reaches 80% as well and then they both increase linearly. In other words, the last quarter of throttle travel, Sprint Booster does nothing. All it does is increase the percentage throttle reported to the car in the first three quarters pedal travel. You can do this without Sprint Booster using your foot.

It's fun to only need to use 50% throttle to effect 80% throttle, it makes you feel cool, but it is measurable identical to just pushing your foot a bit further. There are absolutely no other benefits to the system, including input lag. It cannot change the path of travel between the pedal and the engine, the car is the delay. The delay is not artificial/put in by VW for any reason and a little inline plug cannot change that.

FYI - no one ever claimed that sprint booster boosted performance, only that it improves driveability
i still stand by that opinion

[Jakeys]

FYI - no one ever claimed that sprint booster boosted performance, only that it improves driveability
i still stand by that opinion

That's wrong. Plenty of people claim it boosts performance, things like "removing input lag" is a common one, or that it actually makes the car perform better with other bizarre rationale. Removing input lag is objectively false. Making the car faster is objectively false. But your claim that it makes it more fun to drive by making the pedal travel reduced I have no issue with, that's just a personal feel/subjective thing.

I just didn't like it because I prefer finer pedal control. SB = less effective travel because it makes part of the pedal at the top end a dead zone for a bit in order to bunch all your travel into a shorter area, only about 10-20ish percent though so not huge, just personal feeling. We are back to the case I was making before about the BBK which is just opinion vs opinion, everyone can be right. Facts are different.

[Elmura]

Definitely gone on a tangent here. From BBK to Sprint Booster.

Since it's related to one of my threads, the SB gives the impression of more responsiveness and more power because a small amount of pedal travel gives a substantially greater net torque response. Of course, we can just use more throttle but that seems to go against our nature (fuel consumption or other subconscious reasons).

It's a psychological thing. It fools the driver that they have a highly responsive car since moving the pedal 3mm equals big acceleration.

Me - I'm teaching myself and my ECU to use progressive throttle inputs with much larger openings in higher gears (manually controlled) and getting better fuel consumption doing it....