R36 exhaust - "suitcase" delete review

[WazR36]

A review on my recent modification:
removal of the centre "suitcase" muffler on my 2009 R36

So, i decided that the sound of my R36 wasn't sufficient to match the performance and really wanted the R32 type of sound. first i went with an EVOMS intake which did make a nice difference but not enough.

after a bit of searching on the net i couldn't find an affordable exhaust that could be justified for price. i thought the idea of a valved-style exhaust would be perfect (ie valve autoamtically oepns at a certain RPM) and while there was a few german companies that make this exhaust none had a bolt-on for the passat. varex has a VK-05 kit but after contacting them it is apparently discontinued to to unexplained "issues".

a few had recommended the suitcase delete, and i liked the youtube clips. so i went for it. it cost $100 ($70 labour + $30 for the pipe including the bend) and about 45 mins at the local exhaust shop.

here is an image of the new setup:


and the removed muffler:



its actually an expansion chamber not a typical muffer per se.
its inside is a large chamber with perforated sides. my shallow understanding is its designed to take out resonating by accelerating exhaust gas into the chamber then slowing it down inside. while its not a direct baffle, its clearly designed to reduce flow compared to a straight pipe.

the difference?

performance gain - none. clearly there would be no gain this is a no-brainer but that's not why i did it.

sound difference? definate change, and i can only assume this is because there is less energy lost as heat/vibration and more kept as sound.

the sound changes are varied according to RPM:
at idle it sounds brilliant, has a nice little rumble reminiscent of a previous merc 5L V8 i had.
at low RPM its sound character is unchagned but its volume is slightly increased.
at mid-high RPM its sound character is much nicer and also slightly louder than stock.

can i stress that there is NO drone at any RPM, and at highway speeds it sounds as if it were stock.

the difference is certainly nowhere near an aftermarket exhaust, but it is much better than stock and it is probably the way the car should have sounded from the factory. if i had to put the volume change on a scale of 0-10, 0 being stock, 6 being loud aftermarket exhaust, and 10 being no muffler... i would probably put it as a 3.

interestingly when the pipe was first put in, i wasn't entirely happy with the sound (didn't make too much difference) but it seemed to evolve over about a week and after that time settled into its current sound which i am very happy about.

summary:
- very worthwile bang-for-buck mod for the difference in sound which has a changed character at idle and mid-high RPM, and a slight increase in volume through all RPMs
- no drone
- no power increase
- overall highly recommended

cheers,
Warren

[team_v]

Interesting to hear Warren.
I had the same mod done to my Tiguan and i am also very happy with it.

Took about a week to settle in (coat itself with exhaust ash) and it sounds a lot more aggressive than the stock system i had (used to be super quiet)

I have a slight drone around the 3000RPM range but it's hardly ever in that range for more than 1 or 2 seconds.


Also, the rear muffler weighed about 10kg by itself so there was some "weight reduction" which may give a miniscule performance boost.
As you said, it's more about sound than performance though with the cat-back section.

---------- Post added at 08:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 AM ----------

Here is my video comparison:

[ING36R]

Hi Warren,

Thanks again and really appreciate you posting this thread, s i too have a 2010 R36 wagon and had been tossing up with Innotech Valvetronic cat back system which is really on system out there that will give kw's but still not enough to justify the price of $4K.

I have heard alot say cut out the hotdogs after cats and some say cut the suitcase, but you have now confirmed this with real evidence.

Not sure what other mods you have done but i can recommend if your car is stock the accelerator control module called "Sprint Power booster". Put in on last week and such a difference especially from stand still.

[URL="http://www.kraftwerk.com.au/car_selector_4.html"]

Highly recommend if you havent already done ECU remap, as you cant have both installed as it will cause ECU to stall and put the vehicle into safe mode. ITs much cheaper and more effective option than doing ECU remap.

Cheers

[THE_EGG]

I deleted my centre muffler/resonator in my DS3, and boy it certainly sounds more raw (which is what i wanted). I too wasn't too happy intially, quite metallic and rattling sounds. But after about 2 weeks it sounded GREAT! Also for me it only cost $50 but thats probs because it took only ~25min and also the guy who did it knew I was a uni-student =.=. I love the little bubbly/rumble at idle and the crackle of the exhaust when fuel explodes in the exhuast No droning for me either. I'll take another video of my exhuast in the next week, my first video wasn't very good - too metallic etc. Also as Clay said, I saved some weight too, about 6.5kg for me.

Also on the DS3 forums, I've seen people get about 1-3 hp from the resonator delete on them and also noticeably improved throttle response. Apparantly that's why you will rarely see DS3's with stock factory setups. Very restrictive exhaust!

[WazR36]

Interesting to hear Warren.
I had the same mod done to my Tiguan and i am also very happy with it.
Took about a week to settle in (coat itself with exhaust ash) and it sounds a lot more aggressive than the stock system i had (used to be super quiet)
I have a slight drone around the 3000RPM range but it's hardly ever in that range for more than 1 or 2 seconds.

yeah i think that is normal for about a week for the correct sound.

for those that are reading the above comment re drone, keep in mind that i am referring to the 3.6L V6 engine in my car, i would assume that team_v has a 4 cyl engine?

Also, the rear muffler weighed about 10kg by itself so there was some "weight reduction" which may give a miniscule performance boost.
As you said, it's more about sound than performance though with the cat-back section.[COLOR="Silver"]

let's not fool ourselves, 10kg isn't going to do anything. that's the weight of my baby seat, or a big lunch at all-you-can-eat!

---------- Post added at 12:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:37 AM ----------

Hi Warren,

Thanks again and really appreciate you posting this thread, s i too have a 2010 R36 wagon and had been tossing up with Innotech Valvetronic cat back system which is really on system out there that will give kw's but still not enough to justify the price of $4K.

I have heard alot say cut out the hotdogs after cats and some say cut the suitcase, but you have now confirmed this with real evidence.

Not sure what other mods you have done but i can recommend if your car is stock the accelerator control module called "Sprint Power booster". Put in on last week and such a difference especially from stand still.

[URL="http://www.kraftwerk.com.au/car_selector_4.html"]

Highly recommend if you havent already done ECU remap, as you cant have both installed as it will cause ECU to stall and put the vehicle into safe mode. ITs much cheaper and more effective option than doing ECU remap.

Cheers

no problems mate, my aim to is give some more objective evidence of the result to help others out, i would have liked a review like this before i did it.

my other mods are only EVOMS intake (also highly recommended - perhaps i should do another review) and Kufatec E-MFA module (for digital speedo in the early "red" instrument cluster).

I can't justify the cash for the small gain from an ECU remap. i did have a sprint booster on my previous car (CLK500) and it made a big difference, i might consider it, did you get it front that website? how much did it cost you?

---------- Post added at 12:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:42 AM ----------

Also on the DS3 forums, I've seen people get about 1-3 hp from the resonator delete on them and also noticeably improved throttle response. Apparantly that's why you will rarely see DS3's with stock factory setups. Very restrictive exhaust!

i would argue that 1-3 hp on a dyno is within the normal error margin.
on a non-turbo car this kind of mod is never goign to add power.
safe to at least say that its not going to lose power and be happy at that!

[team_v]

yeah i think that is normal for about a week for the correct sound.

for those that are reading the above comment re drone, keep in mind that i am referring to the 3.6L V6 engine in my car, i would assume that team_v has a 4 cyl engine?



let's not fool ourselves, 10kg isn't going to do anything. that's the weight of my baby seat, or a big lunch at all-you-can-eat!

I should have clarified, mine is the 2.0 TSI 4cyl not the 3.6 NA 6cyl.

10kg won't do anything in real terms but every bit helps!

[R36 DSG]

I've been looking at doing some for of intake mod for ages. WazR36 how much is the EVOMS, is it available locally or did you buy it online? I've only been able to find one for the R32, does this fit straight on the R36?By the way awesome review on the muffler delete, a similar review on the intake mod would be great!

[WazR36]

I've been looking at doing some for of intake mod for ages. WazR36 how much is the EVOMS, is it available locally or did you buy it online? I've only been able to find one for the R32, does this fit straight on the R36?By the way awesome review on the muffler delete, a similar review on the intake mod would be great!

ok will post a review on the EVOMS intake tomorrow including answers to your questions...
(need to go take pics and clarify how much it cost etc.)

[THE_EGG]

yeah i think that is normal for about a week for the correct sound.

for those that are reading the above comment re drone, keep in mind that i am referring to the 3.6L V6 engine in my car, i would assume that team_v has a 4 cyl engine?



let's not fool ourselves, 10kg isn't going to do anything. that's the weight of my baby seat, or a big lunch at all-you-can-eat!

---------- Post added at 12:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:37 AM ----------



no problems mate, my aim to is give some more objective evidence of the result to help others out, i would have liked a review like this before i did it.

my other mods are only EVOMS intake (also highly recommended - perhaps i should do another review) and Kufatec E-MFA module (for digital speedo in the early "red" instrument cluster).

I can't justify the cash for the small gain from an ECU remap. i did have a sprint booster on my previous car (CLK500) and it made a big difference, i might consider it, did you get it front that website? how much did it cost you?

---------- Post added at 12:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:42 AM ----------



i would argue that 1-3 hp on a dyno is within the normal error margin.
on a non-turbo car this kind of mod is never goign to add power.
safe to at least say that its not going to lose power and be happy at that!

Yeh, that's what I thought as well initially, I think in the real world, the improved throttle response makes it feel faster and thus people probably didn't think (or want to think) that it was within margin of error. Also regarding the small improvements with an ECU remap, I would have though around 20hp for a car like yours and perhaps 20-30Nm or torque. Especially seeing my engine can be outputting ~100kw and ~180Nm (instead of 88kw and 160Nm) with a remap, although thats with new spark plugs too.

[Steve]

I'm visiting an exhaust shop tomorrow morning to have the central mufflery thing removed.

Also interested in hearing about the intake...

Edit: Guess who didn't get out of bed until 10am and isn't getting the exhaust tweaked today? Me!

[ING36R]

yeah i think that is normal for about a week for the correct sound.

for those that are reading the above comment re drone, keep in mind that i am referring to the 3.6L V6 engine in my car, i would assume that team_v has a 4 cyl engine?



let's not fool ourselves, 10kg isn't going to do anything. that's the weight of my baby seat, or a big lunch at all-you-can-eat!

---------- Post added at 12:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:37 AM ----------



no problems mate, my aim to is give some more objective evidence of the result to help others out, i would have liked a review like this before i did it.

my other mods are only EVOMS intake (also highly recommended - perhaps i should do another review) and Kufatec E-MFA module (for digital speedo in the early "red" instrument cluster).

I can't justify the cash for the small gain from an ECU remap. i did have a sprint booster on my previous car (CLK500) and it made a big difference, i might consider it, did you get it front that website? how much did it cost you?

---------- Post added at 12:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:42 AM ----------



i would argue that 1-3 hp on a dyno is within the normal error margin.
on a non-turbo car this kind of mod is never goign to add power.
safe to at least say that its not going to lose power and be happy at that!

Hi Warren,

Sorry hadnt got back to you earlier.

Been thinking about Gruppe-M intake, but want to minimise mods to engine as i think the Sprint booster is enough and i have BMC pan filter to help breathe better.

I spoke with Thomas owner of Ramspeed and suggested this for NA, gteed money back if not happy with it and was a cheaper at $590 delivered.

Can get cheaper from US website, but not sure about warranty as not supplied locally. No recourse???

Was going to get John from BM autowerx to install it, but did it myself as you know its pretty straight forward. Guy at work has a R36 Wagon same as mine and he did ECU remap. I drove it cant tell the difference in power and that was $1300.

People who have ECU remap and gain 17kw extra say the fuel consumption improved aswell, can see how?

You going to Winton on Monday?

[WazR36]

Hi Warren,

Sorry hadnt got back to you earlier.

Been thinking about Gruppe-M intake, but want to minimise mods to engine as i think the Sprint booster is enough and i have BMC pan filter to help breathe better.

I spoke with Thomas owner of Ramspeed and suggested this for NA, gteed money back if not happy with it and was a cheaper at $590 delivered.

Can get cheaper from US website, but not sure about warranty as not supplied locally. No recourse???

Was going to get John from BM autowerx to install it, but did it myself as you know its pretty straight forward. Guy at work has a R36 Wagon same as mine and he did ECU remap. I drove it cant tell the difference in power and that was $1300.

People who have ECU remap and gain 17kw extra say the fuel consumption improved aswell, can see how?

You going to Winton on Monday?

sorry i couldn't understand what you were saying at the start of the post, so you got the Gruppe-M? or were you referring to the sprint booster?

interesting what you say about your mate's wagon driving the same with the remap done as most say they feel a difference, but then again most won't admit that there isn't too much difference after dropping over 1k, that's the nature of the internet and has to be factored in when reading subjective posts i think

what's happening at winton? i won't be at a track meet though, have a young baby to look after.

[ING36R]

Sorry, I was referring to the Sprint booster which i installed myself and had considered a Gruppe-M intake but didnt want to make too much engine mods.

I thought based on what Ramspeed told me about saying the sprint booster is better bang for buck over remap, that clearly was better option and can switch it off sold me on it. Plus, he gtee if not happy he would refund so.....couldnt go wrong.

Sprintbooster works well as predominantly wifes car, so she drive auto and doesnt impact on the way she likes to drive.

I was thinking of checking out the VW track day tomorrow @ Winton, but too far to go to just watch.

If you can, join us at the next Melbourne drive day on Sun 1st July as it seems to be alot of Golf/Polo owners, but not many R36's?

[WazR36]

Thought I would post a bit of an update…

Its been a while since I have done the suitcase delete and after a birthday (hence some extra cash) I decided to do this properly and install some aftermarket mufflers. The suitcase delete was always a cheap option and in an ideal world I was always wanting to go aftermarket.

Searched the net for a few …
The best seemed to be the Innotech IPE exhaust but it is a very expensive option. Supersprint was also too expensive.

Had a few places quote me on different custom things to do to the car, varying widely in their approach. One place suggested that I go 3” pipe from the cats back to the bifurcation, then into twin 2.5” piping with only hot dogs on the rear. Obviously this place was unaware of the drone issues that we can get with this engine and not listening to what I wanted from the car.

Finally settled on the plan from a local place where I have been before (they did some work on a previous merc that I had). I actually think this is the same place that ING36R went to as they talked about a wagon they had done where they removed the suitcase and ended up re-installing it (due to drone) and going with twin Remus mufflers on the rear. Is this your wagon?

My budget was limited so I couldn’t afford the Remus option. My requirements were for slightly louder than current but still no drone. I know the car can get boomy just above 2500rpm (as per stock setup) but I wanted to ensure that there was no drone.

After a bit of testing they confirmed that the current rear mufflers were already a straight through design and could pass a wire through them easily. So the plan was to go for a straight through muffler but with less packing. They also suggested putting the centre muffler back as it would otherwise be too loud and also probably drone with the aftermarket rear mufflers.

They warned against lukey, magnaflow, xforce and a few other aftermarket ones (previous bad experiences). Apparently most of these are nothing but a straight through pipe with not much actual packing. There wasn’t anything in stainless steel in my budget that was actually worth having.

Their advice was to re-install the suitcase and replace the rear mufflers with straight-though mild steel mufflers. They suggested I use the OEM middle/centre mufflers from a commodore which are solid, good quality, with lots of packing, but with little-no restriction. I liked the idea as they are a muffler designed to work from the factory rather than some cheap crap from china and who knows what would be inside. I also asked for larger tips as I wanted something that looked the business. I went for long 4” tips (similar to OEM but bigger).

The result? Well the sound character is very similar to before but the sound is slightly louder at all RPM particularly at idle. Its actually slightly less “boomy” at 2500rpm than with the suitcase, more like stock, and definitely does not drone. Overall very happy with the result and this is really a nice upgrade for the price. And worth it for the nice 4" tips.

From what this exhaust guy has been saying about wagon drone it sounds like there has either been exhaust changes at the MY10 upgrade, or the wagon just has a greater propensity to drone for whatever reason (slightly longer exhaust or differences in sound deadening?).

Pics:





I have another pic of both tips from the rear but have to download it from my phone again.

Hope this helps those after an upgrade.

I can divulge the name of the exhaust shop if requested.

Cheers.

[WazR36]

Now the search begins for a nice carbon diffuser (aka C63 style) to go with the tips.
Not sure if one exists though...