5000K oil changes?

[Magooligum]

I've read a few people on the forums with Diesels change their oil on a more regular basis than recommended by VW some after as little as 5000K between changes.

I was wondering if anyone is aware of any definitive testing on the validty of this approach?

It seems to me that there is a whole lot of oil being discarded in an attempt to 'go the extra mile' to show that you really love your car. When in reality there is no significant difference made to the wear and tear of the components.

Voodoo or you do?

[Rocket36]

I always change my oil at half the recommended distance. I.e. with my 3.6 V6 the oil + filter are changed every 7,500km rather than every 15,000km.

[RichPassat]

Having owned a number of diesels before the passat, I have always serviced at the half interval. Just a habit will continue to do so and I am of the opinion that clean oil less risk to engine.

[gerhard]

I had a VL with the nissan 6 at one stage, and it was the most neglected car I've owned. From 150,000 to 225,000 it might have had 2 oil changes, and the trannie was serviced only once in the entire time I had it from 38,000k.

My son took it over at 225,000 and thrashed the cr@p out of it, as they do. It was the fastest engine out of all his mates' VLs, never blew a puff of smoke, didn't use a drop of oil, compression was barely below new levels.

I say Voodo to too many oil changes. The manufacturer has engineers who have many fold the experience and data that "seat of the pants" users have, and the throwing away of $80 worth of perfectly good oil should be regarded as environmental vandalism

[Diesel_vert]

Certainly in the past, when our diesel had levels of sulfur approaching 500 ppm, it was more prudent to drain the oil more frequently.

Today however, given that our diesel is now at Euro 5 standards (<10 ppm sulfur) it may be a bit silly to change at such a low interval, and certainly a waste of resources. TDI engines are very capable of 15,000 km drain intervals, as proven by the Americans via oil analysis on TDIForums.com

But whatever drain interval you stick with, it is crucial that the oil you use is on Volkswagen's approved list of lubricants. The relevant spec. you need is VW 504 00/507 00. They aren't common or cheap, but such is the price you pay for current European philosophy - increasing performance using clean technologies.

This advice only applies to TDI engines, not T/FSI engines.

[Rocket36]

I had a VL with the nissan 6 at one stage, and it was the most neglected car I've owned. From 150,000 to 225,000 it might have had 2 oil changes, and the trannie was serviced only once in the entire time I had it from 38,000k.

My son took it over at 225,000 and thrashed the cr@p out of it, as they do. It was the fastest engine out of all his mates' VLs, never blew a puff of smoke, didn't use a drop of oil, compression was barely below new levels.

I say Voodo to too many oil changes. The manufacturer has engineers who have many fold the experience and data that "seat of the pants" users have, and the throwing away of $80 worth of perfectly good oil should be regarded as environmental vandalism

LMAO!!! Thanks for the laugh... ANY engineer will tell you the newer the oil the better for the engine...

[ron]

LMAO!!! Thanks for the laugh... ANY engineer will tell you the newer the oil the better for the engine...

he was serious man.....

[gerhard]

LMAO!!! Thanks for the laugh... ANY engineer will tell you the newer the oil the better for the engine...

You clearly haven't read the Mobil 1 site, where testing revealed that not to be true. It only requires a small percentage of oil to be topped up to replenish the additives.

Auto transmission only need to periodically renew 1/3 of the ATF to keep the trannie in top shape.

So I guess your ANY engineers are like economists - they claim to know everything but really don't know anything. Show 2 engineers or economists a red flag, and one of them will swear it's blue.

My suggestion to the OP is to renew the oil every 12 months or 15,000k as VW suggests, and the engine will live a long life. No need to waste money by changing every 5000k. The Le-mans 24 hour Audis travelled 5400 or so ks and they didn't change the oil, even though they were racing.

[Buller_Scott]

ANY engineer will tell you the newer the oil the better for the engine...

ANY engineer who told you that just because it's the right thing to do to your magna/ mazda 3/ other petrol, and thinks that they can apply that directly to a diesel, has no ****ing clue.

it's sexy to be presumptuous, but its not the case in diesels. pre pumpe duse engines fared well from frequent oil changes, however the PD engines are a different ball game- i've seen used oil analysis discussions where basically, it goes like this:

TDI mech: right- you're engine's ****ed! what have you been doing to it?
car owner: changing the oil every 5k miles
TDI mech: okay, we've rebuilt your engine... now, do you want to treat it properly?
car owner: yes
TDI mech: okay. next oil change is in 15k MILES. 20k if necessary.

bottom line is, at least in PD engines, i've seen plenty of literature saying that UOA shows no more debris in 15k mile oil than in 5k mile oil in PD TDI engnes, but to change the oil more frequently would be to re introduce detergency qualities the likes of which when used over-frequently, WILL contribute to the deadly PD engine early cam lobe wear/ bottom end wear.

my cousins/ uncles TRIED to tell me what to do with the tdi- how to brake the engine in, how to drive it on a daily basis, how to etc etc etc.

it didnt take me too much new knowledge to turn around and tell them "i may not be an engineer like you, but i know enough to tell you that you dont have a ****ing clue about TDI's"

[Maverick]

I've read a few people on the forums with Diesels change their oil on a more regular basis than recommended by VW some after as little as 5000K between changes.

I was wondering if anyone is aware of any definitive testing on the validty of this approach?

It seems to me that there is a whole lot of oil being discarded in an attempt to 'go the extra mile' to show that you really love your car. When in reality there is no significant difference made to the wear and tear of the components.

Voodoo or you do?

Volkswagen recommend more frequent oil changes under severe driving conditions.

Australia is considered to have severe driving conditions so more frequent oil changes should be considered.

I don't mind paying the dealer an additional $150 to do an oil change at 6 months/7500kms as it's cheap insurance and seeing as there are no cheap oil testing places in Australia to check the condition of the oil it's what I'll keep doing on every car I own.

There's plenty of evidence around on various websites where the owners do oil testing that changing the oil more frequently is worthwhile.

[Buller_Scott]

ugh i give up.

Magooligum, if you're going to only keep your car for 5 years, then go ahead- follow the petrol boys' advice. let the next owner deal with the engine problems when they buy it off you, as that CAN be an issue for TDI's.

cheers.

p.s. seeing as we've got a few petrol boys, who openly mock TDI's in other threads as not being ''drivers' cars'', ADVOCATING more-frequent oil changes, could they please be kind enough to post DIESEL SPECIFIC used oil analysis ''evidence'' in the context of tdi oil viscosity in certain environments, too? all this talk about how severe australian driving conditions are for DIESELS... we already have ULSD like the states and europe, which can account for up to 90% reduction in soot levels, the soot which the detergents in the oil AT REGULAR OIL CHANGE INTERVALS are MORE than capable of dispersing even on MODIFIED TDI.,

and as for heat- ''tropical temperatures'' are NOT above our tdi's- that would just go to oil viscosity, and intake work that allows for cooler intake temps would be much more advantageous than blindly changing your oil every 5,000km's just because it made sense to the petrol boys.

but from what i've read, magooligum, a VW approved 15w40 oil, changed at 10,000 MILE intervals [aka your regular service interval- 15,000 kms], will be fine, and will still allow your engine to look like new if you were to lift the head and have a look at say, 400,000km's.

[Diesel_vert]

Lol, DO NOT use any 15W-40 oil for a TDI unless you want problems!

Must emphasise again, you must use the correct oil, irrespective of drain interval. For your Passat, the correct standard is VW 504 00/507 00 which, if you look at the approval list, are all 5W-30 oils. Such oils include, but are not limited to;

Castrol SLX Professional Powerflow Longlife III 5W-30 : (found at VW dealers, so can be expensive per litre)
Elf Solaris LLX 5W-30
Fuchs Titan GT1 PRO C3 5W-30
Liqui-Moly Top Tec 4200 5W-30 : ($80/5L)
Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 : ($240/20L)
Motul Specific 504 00-507 00 5W-30
Penrite Enviro+ 5W-30 : ($60/5L)
Shell Helix Ultra Extra 5W-30 : ($75/5L)
Total Quartz Ineo 504-507 5W-30
Valvoline SynPower XL-III 5W-30

If you mainly drive in the city or suburbia, I'd hazard a guess you'd do less than 15k per year, in which case you should be servicing the car annually anyway. But if you travel a lot on the highways, then it's more likely you'll reach 15k within a year so that's when you'd service it. Don't worry at the rate you rake up the miles, as highway driving is gentler on the oil, and the car in general.

The only pitfalls of extended servicing are that people are less likely to open the bonnet, which doesn't make sense if you think about it. Given the duration between services, it becomes even more important that the driver makes sure all fluids are topped up - it's actually true that even a bit of new oil really does extend its age. The other problem is that if you skip just one service, that's potentially 30k on the same oil (even 504/507 oils cannot withstand that sort of punishment in Australia), so don't skip services.

If you're still contemplating more frequent drain intervals, don't go to the dealer. Much better to do it yourself, or at least learn how to (not terribly difficult if you're reasonably intelligent). Make time one weekend and use the opportunity to get to know your car better.

Further reading: TDIClub Forums - Fuels & Lubricants
Should keep you busy for a while.

[coastie]

Changing the oil to often? - TDIClub Forums

This one about changing oils too often for diesels is worth wading through the 5 pages of posts to get some better understanding. Also look at the used oil analysis posts and make up your own mind.

[Rocket36]

For those that don't understand, my comment was related to me and my experience with my car... As if it wasn't obvious!