Passat Brake issue - Help

[Man In Black (MIB)]

Hi Guys, I have a brake problem with my 07 V6 Passat that the forum may be able to solve. So far my local dealer and VW Aust are at a loss to explain what has happened.

I recently had the rear brakes inspected as there was scraping noise coming from the left rear during braking. On inspection it was revealed that the inside brake pad of the rear left had worn down to nothing, the scraping noise was metal on metal as the brake was applied. An inspection of the other rear inside pad revealed the same thing.

The car had only recently had its 60,000km service with the brake pads then showing 7mm on the front and 5mm on the rear at that service. However, it transpired those figures were for the outside pad. It appears inside pads are not (or weren't) inspected. $600 later through new rear disks and pads no one has an answer as to why the inside pads wore away to nothing. As there is currently no answer there is no fix, meaning this will probably happen again.

Has anyone heard of this or have an idea what the dealership should be looking at or doing?? Happy to answer any questions you have.

Thanks in advance.

[xcgumby]

Well, that's freaking me out!

I've got an '05 which it around the 60k kms now....

Could it be that the caliper isn't sliding in properly? The cylinder is mounted on the inside, so that's going to be the cause.... But I've no idea what the failure method/mode would be.

[gerhard]

Quite a few late model dubs wear the rear pads faster than the fronts, and quite a few don't last 60,000k. Pads and rotors are both sacrificial, and rotors can rarely be machined and reused.

Is it possible that there is a bad pad material batch affecting the inside pads only, or as mentioned above the sliders are not free enough causing all the work to be done by the inside pads beside the piston.

[h100vw]

Is it possible that there is a bad pad material batch affecting the inside pads only, or as mentioned above the sliders are not free enough causing all the work to be done by the inside pads beside the piston.

The 4 pads on the back are the same shape so I don't think there is a material issue. Could be a problem with the caliper alignment for some reason?

Gavin

[Jmac]

Hi Guys, I have a brake problem with my 07 V6 Passat that the forum may be able to solve. So far my local dealer and VW Aust are at a loss to explain what has happened.

I recently had the rear brakes inspected as there was scraping noise coming from the left rear during braking. On inspection it was revealed that the inside brake pad of the rear left had worn down to nothing, the scraping noise was metal on metal as the brake was applied. An inspection of the other rear inside pad revealed the same thing.

The car had only recently had its 60,000km service with the brake pads then showing 7mm on the front and 5mm on the rear at that service. However, it transpired those figures were for the outside pad. It appears inside pads are not (or weren't) inspected. $600 later through new rear disks and pads no one has an answer as to why the inside pads wore away to nothing. As there is currently no answer there is no fix, meaning this will probably happen again.

Has anyone heard of this or have an idea what the dealership should be looking at or doing?? Happy to answer any questions you have.

Thanks in advance.

Did you get to see the pads they took from your car mate????? Inside pads will wear a bit more than the outers as they are closest to the pistons. Other one dare i say it they never checked them????? At 6ok if you havent had brakes they would be well overdue. The rears wear down quicker than the fronts on new Passats, Mk5 Golfs. The rear applies momentarily before the fronts .
Keen to hear more
Jmac

[Highlander]

Other one dare i say it they never checked them?????
Jmac

My guess too. If the inside pads were OK at the 60,000 km service they would have hardly been likely to have worn down in such a hurry.

I would be having stern words with the dealer and looking for some type of compensation, especially as it was on BOTH sides, so it looks like things were operating somewhat normally.

Especially if it was serviced by an authorised VW service agent/dealer.

Can any of our dealer or service members confirm that both inner and outer pads should be inspected, especially if the remaining pad thickness is reported with the service.

We rely on the service report as a trigger for pad replacement.

[gerhard]

My guess too. If the inside pads were OK at the 60,000 km service they would have hardly been likely to have worn down in such a hurry.

I would be having stern words with the dealer and looking for some type of compensation, especially as it was on BOTH sides, so it looks like things were operating somewhat normally.

Especially if it was serviced by an authorised VW service agent/dealer.

Can any of our dealer or service members confirm that both inner and outer pads should be inspected, especially if the remaining pad thickness is reported with the service.

We rely on the service report as a trigger for pad replacement.

Why would compensation come into it.

If the pads and rotors are worn, they would need replacing anyway. As it happens, OP has got maximum life from the set. Changing them earlier would have cost exactly the same.

[Highlander]

Why Not?

Why would compensation come into it.

If the pads and rotors are worn, they would need replacing anyway. As it happens, OP has got maximum life from the set. Changing them earlier would have cost exactly the same.

Pads yes but rotors, maybe, mabe not.

If I had my car serviced and received a report that the rears had 7mm of pads left, I would expect that I had considerable kilometres left in the pads,

At the least I would expect a call from by service guys saying that your reads are good only for another 1000kms or so before they need replacement.

I have generally received a note on the service report as to estimate of remaining pad life and a comment like " Pads will need replacement at next service or a call to say that pads won't make it to the next service and is it OK to replace them.

Pads replaced in time before metal to metal may have not involved replacement of rotors and parts and labour costs involved. Or do we expect to replace a set of rotors per set of pads.

Do we expect to have to replace rotors at 60,000km? Yes or No. Has this been the experience of other Passat owners?

Maybe the rear inner pad wear is something we need to be aware of and bring to the notice of the VW service guys at time of service. Far be it from me to think that members of this forum could know more than the VW service workshops.

But by way of example

VW service wanted to charge me when they firstly offered to upgrade my RNS510 firmware under warranty to accept 32 GB SDHC cards and then told me it couldn't be done as my RNS was revision B and the only way to get SDHC compatibility was to buy a later Revision C RNS510.

I left unhappy, downloaded the firmware from the links on Maverick's gti.com site and installed the firmware myself and it works perfectly. All without buying a Revision C RNS510.

Thanks Maverick and this site for the info. Only wish I had been here before wasting $900 on a basic Nokia/VW Bluetooth phone kit which I feel is so poor that it is of merchantable quality. Even the basic $400 overpriced Nokia/Holden bluetooth phone hit allows for voice dialling but that's another day for another thread.

I still think it could look like an "oversight" during the service.

[Man In Black (MIB)]

Thanks Guys. I think we may have cracked it. "Inside pads wear faster" and "late models Passats have the rears go first". It almost sounds like it is by design so as to ensure you don't lose your fronts by making you change the backs first as an indicator of overall wear. After a proper re-inspection they said the fronts will need replacing in about 7-10,000kms time.

At the 60,000km service the dealership did not check the inside pads which is why they wore away to nothing and was metal on metal when I did something about it.

I'll ensure they give me 8 measurements for disk pad wear each time now. Particularly as my Mk-5 GTI is up for its 60,000km service shortly.

Thanks again.

[Highlander]

At the 60,000km service the dealership did not check the inside pads which is why they wore away to nothing and was metal on metal when I did something about it..

I would be interested to know if there is a tick on the service report or similar that says "rear brakes checked". if it's "usual" or "normal" for the inside pads to wear faster, one would think that it would be imperative that you check the INSIDE pad wear.

Or am I just being picky. Steering alignment box on my CC predelivery sheet was ticked OK and I drove it straight to my wheel aligners who found it far enough out to need adjustment. Dealer shrugged his shoulders when I told him.

Not confined to VW I must admit. My new VZ Holden ute had a tick in the box saying "tub liner installed and checked for fit". Opened the hard cover. Guess What?. No tub liner. It was a dealer fit accessory in the VZs. Strenuous work checking those predelivery boxes and not cheap either.

[Highlander]

A similar brake case - but in a Holden

Client of mine who usually drives a diesel Holden Epica arrived at my office today in a dealer loan car emblazoned with XX Motor Group Courtesy Car.

Knowing that her car is only 18 months old, I casually asked if her car was in for service and you will never guess the reply.

No she said. My car recently had 30000 km service and all brakes reported OK. 2000km later "rear inside pads" were down to metal to metal necessitating new pads and rotors. Rear outside pads were OK.

She was furious as she works in the motor industry and is quite fastidious about her cars and let the dealer know what she thought of the service that told her she had at least another 10000km in her rear brakes.

End result. Rotors are being replaced at the dealers expense and she is not sure if she is paying for the pads or if they are being thrown in by the dealer as a goodwill gesture to try and retain her business.

MIB. If I was in your shoes, I would certainly be letting your service dealer know what I thought. I would expect brake rotors to last more than 60000km but then I don't have any experience of travelling 60000km in a Volkswagen.

As I said in an earlier post, it would be interesting if to see if we have had many Passat drivers who needed well maintained rotors replaced at or around 60,000km.

[Man In Black (MIB)]

Highlander, the brake pads were checked at the 60K service. They said I had 5 mm, but it has since transpired they only check the outside pad. I guess it's too much work to remove the guard and look at the inside pad.

Some of the comments on this thread have been enlightening however, I was asked at the dealership if the brake warning light came on. It didn't. We're not sure why it didn't (as that's its job) but it has been suggested that the pad sensor is located on the outside pad. Which is counter to the practice of the insides wearing first due to the position of the piston.

I paid for new pads and disks as euro ventilated disks cannot be machined. Also, 60k isn't bad for euro brakes, so I'm told. I guess the issue is the sloppy job they did checking them. As I've said before, I'll be asking for 8 numbers next time any of my cars are in for a service; inside outside front left right and inside outside rear left right.

[gslrallysport]

It almost sounds like it is by design

Most new cars will go through rears as quick, if not quicker than the fronts. Since the advent of advanced ABS add ons like EBD, traction control, stability control, it's become increasingly important to be able to modulate the rear brakes alot better than previously required. The answer to this is larger rotors than traditionally used, and SMALLER pads. Pad surface area has no bearing on performance (2nd law of friction), but it does affect the modulability* of the pad, and by going to a smaller pad it means any pressure increase has a lesser effect, making the pad easier to modulate.

The guts of it is a smaller pad and larger rotor gives it more leverage, and easy to work with, than a smaller rotor and larger pad. The downside of this is shorter rear pad life than in the past, but abs systems that do their job better.

* Yep, I made that word up. Feel free to put it in your back pocket and use it on a rainy day!

[Jmac]

Most new cars will go through rears as quick, if not quicker than the fronts. Since the advent of advanced ABS add ons like EBD, traction control, stability control, it's become increasingly important to be able to modulate the rear brakes alot better than previously required. The answer to this is larger rotors than traditionally used, and SMALLER pads. Pad surface area has no bearing on performance (2nd law of friction), but it does affect the modulability* of the pad, and by going to a smaller pad it means any pressure increase has a lesser effect, making the pad easier to modulate.

The guts of it is a smaller pad and larger rotor gives it more leverage, and easy to work with, than a smaller rotor and larger pad. The downside of this is shorter rear pad life than in the past, but abs systems that do their job better.

* Yep, I made that word up. Feel free to put it in your back pocket and use it on a rainy day!

Yep 100%. Ive found this issue since Golf 5 platform came around, they pull up rear 1st momentarily then front. 95% of all Mk5 and B6 Passat i do rears 1st. Still you had a service surely you should have had an approx wear time???? I know i tell all my customers the percentage they have left. And back to the inside pad point yes you really only use the outer as a guide, if its low then the inner will be lower for sure.
All good
Jmac

[marckhor]

I think 60000km is pretty good life for brake pads. This is a wear and tear product. Might event be lower if you drive a lot in CBD start stop traffic.

I have 07 Passat V6 wagon and classify myself as a spirited driver. My old Mazda 6 had to change its pads around 60000km. Hence pretty consistent.

Just changed my rear pads around 60000km. The rotors appears to be fine but the front (pads and rotors) is due anytime soon. Suggest to change the rear pads sooner if there is still life left on the rotors. Rotors cost around $750 from the dealer.