Tyres scalloping @ 23,500km???

[snodrogs]

I took my Passat in today for a few "warranty issues" that could not wait for the 30k service. Including:

1. Wheel bearing/CV noise from front end;
2. Snatchy (and getting worse) DSG when pulling away from stationary; and
3. Vibration through the chassis at about 1200RPM.

...and a couple of other minor niggly issues...

The Workshop Manager took it for a spin around the block and immediately informed me that it needed a software update on the DSG, the vibration was definately there and it sounded like exhaust vibration/harmonics, and the wheel bearing noise is probably scalloping of the tyres, but they would check the CV and wheel bearings during the day in any case.

I arrived to pick up the car in the afternoon, and was greeted with good and bad news.

1. Wheel bearings and CVs are fine. The tyres (all 4) are definately scalloped and the only way the wheel-bearing-like noise is going to go away is by replacing the 4 tyres. That's the bad news, just in case you were wondering...

2. Now the good (I think). The mechatronic unit is going to be replaced under warranty and they believe that the vibration is also due to a problem in this area (whatever that means).

I drove a 4-sp DSG Jetta today as a loaner and that gearbox was as smooth as silk, so if mine comes back like the Jetta once the new mechatronic unit is fiitted and calibrated, I am going to be one very happy owner. Cross fingers.

Generally I am very happy with the response from the Dealer, and I was (pleasently) surprised at their suggestion for the mechatronic unit to be replaced.

Back to the tyres:

The vehicle has only done 23,500km, I have had it from new, and for all 4 tyres to be needing replacement at my cost is, IMHO, unacceptible. I usually get much greater than 40,000 out of tyres (the Integra Type S was 40,000, and the Berlina before that 60,000).

I cannot really see any sign of scalloping on the tyres (although my engineering degree is not in tyres) and I am struggling to work out how over the past 4-5 weeks the noise has started and progressively got worse.

What are forum member's experiences with tyre wear, and where do you think I stand in terms of some sort of compensation from VWAG if I [I]were[I] to go and replace all four when they have significant life left in them. It's not to the point where it is unbearable, but it is not the whisper-quiet beast it was when it was brand new (before the geometry or whatever on the car has caused these Pirelli tyres to "scallop").

It is frustrating because I am NOT a hoon, I DO NOT take corners like Mark Webber, and I DO check the tyre pressures every 3 or 4 months along with the oil etc...

Your thoughts and experiences folks??

Thanks!

[drbass]

Hi snodrogs,

Tyres: Pirelli PZero Rosso
Pressure: regularly checked and maintained at 38 psi
Geometry of car (i.e. wheel alignment): never checked
Start of "whoopwhoopwhoop": at about 32,000. Very sudden, thought I had a partial blowout. It has gotten worse - like in your case, the once oh-so-quiet experience ("Can you hear that PD engine working away?") has been replaced by a truck ambience (but you can't hear the Diesel anymore .
Life left: Probably another 5,000 - 10,000 on top of the 40,000 I've done so far.

Had the wheels aligned on our Eos after delivery, and the rear was out considerably. Tyre guy said it's OK to keep driving the Passat, and wheel alignment will not help at this stage.

Also interested in the experience of others.

DSG, well, similar story. Reset software at 30,000 km service, appeared to be better for a while, now generally jerky on take-off (occasionally it's buttersmooth - figure that one out) but fine once going. Will have to get this fixed, it's almost embarrassing with other people in the car.

Hope this helps.

Seeya,
Michael

[Maverick]

The vehicle has only done 23,500km, I have had it from new, and for all 4 tyres to be needing replacement at my cost is, IMHO, unacceptible. I usually get much greater than 40,000 out of tyres (the Integra Type S was 40,000, and the Berlina before that 60,000).

What tyres are on the car?

I DO check the tyre pressures every 3 or 4 months along with the oil etc...

Your thoughts and experiences folks??

Check your tyres and oil a lot more often than 3 or 4 months

What pressure do you run in the tyres? Have you rotated them? What sort of roads do you drive on? And how old are the tyres/car?

[brad]

Your old cars:
The Berlina: OEM tyres on Holdens are fairly hard / long wearing at the expense of grip. We got about 60,000km out of our Berlinas tyres too (RE92 Bridgestones IIRC).
The Honda: Bridgestone RE030? Last forever & the Honda is a lightweight isn't it?

Back to the Passat.......
I have an Octavia (same chassis as a Golf) and they have a reputation for scalloping the inside of the rear tyres so i cross-rotate the tyres every 5,000-8,000km (which also gives me a chance to wash them properly). So far,after 30,000km no scalloping or odd wear. The tyres are getting low though & will be buggered before the 45,000km service is due.

I'd recomend you get a second opinion from a tyre specialist. Preferably, get in touch with the Australian distributor & ask them who you should contact. you might possibly have a bad batch of tyres & they may be able to offer some solutions.

What has happened is that the tyres have got a harmonic imbalance in them & keep wearing in the same spot which has caused the saw-tooth/scallop. You need to disrupt the harmonic by reversing the rotation of the tyre or putting the scallop in a different place.

If there is still a reasonable amount of tread left (say 4-5mm. They have 9mm new IIRC) then you might be able to flip them on the rim & put the scalloping on the outside (assuming it's now on the inside) or just cross them side-side, back to front & get them rotating the opposite direction. This won't stop the noise straight away but it will reduce over about 5000km.

Once you get this sorted you need to keep an eye on pressures & check them every 4-6 weeks. I'd go with 38F/36R. I would also recomend a regular cross rotation of the tyres (fronts to rear. rear to diagonally opposite fronts) every 5000-8000km.

[snodrogs]

G'Day

You are right Brad - The Holden was Bridgestones and they were hard wearing for sure. The opposite with the tyres on the Honda - they were soft and I DID drive that little baby for what it was worth on occassions.

Maverick, the car was new in July 08, so tyres were new at that stage. They are the Pirelli Pzero Rosso 235/45/R17s. I am running them at 37 all around and have been since it was delivered at that pressure too. When I have been checking they have been hot, and at about 39PSI so I thinking that it about right. No rotation as yet, and only driving on WA course bitumen roads. My oil consumption is piddly (500ml before the first service) and it has remained low since - no topping up required so far since servicing. Each time I checked the tyres the pressure was fine. Hence the "qtrly regime". Are you suggesting that this should be done more often then?

DrBass, your experience certainly sounds familiar to mine. The only thing that puzzles me is that there is no obvious sign of mis-alignment, no feathering, uneven wear etc. I get the same inconsistent take off, and sometimes wonder what the shuddering is doing to the rest of the drivetrain and engine when it does decide it wants to move... Hopefully that will be a thing of the past with the new controller installed.

Brad, I like your ideas about rotating etc. The back tyres clearly have less wear than the front, so I might rotate them front to back and side to side as well.

Thanks for all the feedback so far.


Andrew

[brad]

They are the Pirelli Pzero Rosso 235/45/R17s.
Brad, I like your ideas about rotating etc. The back tyres clearly have less wear than the front, so I might rotate them front to back and side to side as well.

If they are assymetric (have an inside & an outside marked on the sidewalls) then you might not (legally?) be able to flip them on the rim.

I would (and I've seen plenty of assymetric tyres fitted "inside out" from the tyre shops) but strictly speaking, you have to follow the manufacturers mounting recomendations. You can reverse the direction / cross-rotate, etc without issue.

[richdave]

I assume the car you speak of is the one in your sig... if so it is similar to mine.

I am running the same size tyres but they are Continentals Sport Contact 2. Done 35K and rotate front/back only about every 10K or so.

No abnormal wear or road noise so far.

Can you check tyre pressures??

I suggest that you do get a second opinion on the tyres.

re the DSG, yep same story as other's here. the solution for most has been a software upgrade followed by a module change when that s/w did not work.

BTW SHMBO had weird noises and poor handling on her BMW and I thought wheel bearings but it turned out to be tyres.. It used to have wider tyres on the read Vs the front and some numbskull had rotated the tyres and put the wider ones on the front

Now we have same size all round - cheaper to replace and simpler for all IMO

[snodrogs]

Yep - that's the one Richdave.

Sorry - I must be missing something with the comment about checking the pressures... I certainly can... Been a BIG day in the office so far, and the brain hurts.

I will certainly get a second opinion on the tyres, and review the options of rotating/flipping on the rims etc as per comments from yourself and Brad.

Cross fingers for the transmission!!

Cheers

[Mika]

Get the stealership to test some wheels off another of their cars and see if the noise is still there?

[snodrogs]

Good idea. I'll get them to rotate front to back as an initial easy check, and then maybe the new wheels and tyres is a great idea. Thanks for that suggestion!

[tryingavw]

G'Day

Brad, I like your ideas about rotating etc. The back tyres clearly have less wear than the front, so I might rotate them front to back and side to side as well.

based on reading threads here, i got the passat wheels aligned and balanced a couple of weeks ago at 11000 klm, also rotated. ( precipitated by a puncture )

the tyre guy said he did need to adjust the alignment a bit, wear was OK.

for $100 is was a good invesment to know they're all ok.

[snodrogs]

I wonder if I should be "pushing back" on the dealer for this to take place rather than fork out my $$ for something that should have been undertaken/checked before/during the PDI stage.

[brad]

I wonder if I should be "pushing back" on the dealer for this to take place rather than fork out my $$ for something that should have been undertaken/checked before/during the PDI stage.

it only takes 1 unlucky hit for the alignment to go out of whack.

Most tyre places will recomend a rotation, wheel balance & alignment every 10,000km so i think your "warranty" period is well & truly shot.

[snodrogs]

You're right...

Anything special with the alignment etc? Bridgetsone Tyre Centre? Anybody recommend anywhere in Perth they have had good experience with?

Andrew

[brad]

You're right...

Anything special with the alignment etc? Bridgetsone Tyre Centre? Anybody recommend anywhere in Perth they have had good experience with?

Andrew

Sorry, don't know anywhere in WA. In fact, I have trouble recommending anywhere in Sydney.

It's hard to pin down where to look. Generally tyre places aren't brilliant as they turn over their staff a fair bit - unless you can find an independent where the owner does the alignments. Either that or find a specialist suspension shop - again, the independents are often better.

One sign of a good aligner is they like to see the worn tyres so that they can align the car to fix the wear pattern rather than just using factory settings.