Passat CC - how thirsty?

[Leagle]

Congrats Offshore. There is a youtube video (by "fifth gear") comparing the Passat R36 (which has same engine as V6 CC) vs the Audi 3.0 TDI (looks like same engine as A5 sportsback the car you chose).

Here is a link of it:
YouTube - Fifth Gear - VW Passat R36 vs. Audi 3.0 TDI

The upshot is that there is not much difference between the performance of the two cars around a track (the R36 narrowly pips the Audi).

As I tried to hint earlier, everyone's tastes about power delivery is different so its good that you drove both cars before you made your decision. It really is a question of whether you prefer torque (Audi TDI) to power (Passat V6). You obviously went for torque.

Your logic in choosing the Audi over the VW in justifying the additional premium is interesting though. Even though your last post suggests that there is only a $12K difference, well, that still gets you a nice holiday! Also, as Rocket implied, there is the opportunity cost forgone in having to fork out more for the Audi in the first place.

I have a friend of mine who is currently looking for a new car. He has driven all the Euros out there including BMW 3 series, Merc C class and is also contemplating Lexus. At the end of the day he concedes that the VW Passat R36/CC beats all similarly priced Euros from those marques hands down. However, he just can't seem to get past the people car badge...

Now I'm not saying thats why YOU chose the Audi over the VW. However I am sure a lot of people still seem to choose Audi (which is part of VW BTW), BMW, Merc have for that reason.

Personally, I gave up on "badge" (for badges sake) long time ago. I've owned lots of marques from Bimmers and Audi to Holdens and Fords and now... VW. I always bought the car that I thought hit the "sweet spot" for best value for money.

My last car (WRX) was (imho) the best bang for your buck car money could buy ("Motor" agreed with me!) For me, without a question of a doubt, feature for feature (and I think you will find the CC still has more standard features than the Audi), the VW Passat CC V6 is the best value for money car when taking luxury, performance and style into account.

If Ford/Holden ever had the quality of a good German car such as VW now has in its cars, I would buy that (all other things being equal). If my VW proves unreliable (and so far its been a good experience), I would not likely be a repeat customer. For me its all about value.

Sorry if all this sounds a little bit condescending. The Audi A5 sportsback is still a fanstastic car. Style, performance and... badge cred. Personally though, I still don't understand why it costs $25K or so more than the CC!

[R34]

I looked at the A5 sportback but a 2.0T with Sline and Adj Suspension and it was $102k drive away
Could've got it down maybe $10k but the diesel was so much more.
Both the missus and I were underwhelmed by it in the end...certainly looked nice but I've had real coupes with more room in the back.
In the end we couldn't be bothered haggling for the A5 especially after driving an R36 the same day

[R34]

....................Passat..A5
Drive away price: 70K 90K
Residual @40% 28K 36K
Net Cost 42K 54K

Thats a 12K difference
Plus say $14k in additional lease payments.
$300 pm difference would buy a lot of fuel too

[offshore]

Congrats Offshore. There is a youtube video (by "fifth gear") comparing the Passat R36 (which has same engine as V6 CC) vs the Audi 3.0 TDI (looks like same engine as A5 sportsback the car you chose).

Thanks, yes I saw that when I was doing my research. The A5 Sportback does indeed use the same 3.0TDI engine, but is a touch quicker than the coupé due to the new 7 speed DSG in the Sportback.

Your logic in choosing the Audi over the VW in justifying the additional premium is interesting though. Even though your last post suggests that there is only a $12K difference, well, that still gets you a nice holiday!

True, but it was more about clearing up the "real" price difference. One poster claimed it's $40K!

I'll pass on my experience of what's going in the market right now for these cars, based on my recent purchasing experience.

I've found Audi dealers are knocking pretty decent chunks off RRP (15%+) at the moment (Q5 excepted - it's got big waitlists). You're looking at driveaway prices of low 80's for a petrol and low 90's for a diesel (inc metallic paint, sunroof etc).

Whereas the R36 and CC seem to have significant waitlists and dealers are therefore not willing to knock much off (like the Q5). This brings the prices a lot closer together than the rrp would suggest.

At the end of the day he concedes that the VW Passat R36/CC beats all similarly priced Euros from those marques hands down. However, he just can't seem to get past the people car badge...

For me it wasn't the badge, but the design elements. If I was after a small hatch, I'd buy a Sirocco in a heartbeat if they were available. From my perspective the badge doesn't make a huge difference in the VW/Audi example, because it's pretty well known that they are the same organisation (VAG), and VW is already viewed as a premium brand in AU anyway.

Ultimately, people often don't buy "nice" cars on price and raw specifications alone. Otherwise there would be no 911 Turbos on the road - they would all be GTR's.

Other factors such as design, aesthetics etc come into play.

In this example, the Audi paint and interior really is the best in the business, and the shape of the SB in the metal is one of the best new designs I've seen in a while. And yes I know that's subjective

It's hard to put numbers around this stuff, but it all gets factored into the total package at decision time.

[Rocket36]

Interesting comments re paint. I took my R36 to one of the best detailers in the country not long after moving to Melbourne and he surprised me when he said the VW paint depth and quality is one of the best he's worked with (and he's worked with everything from beautiful exotics to run of the mill Commodores). Bottom line is, you have to be happy with the decision you made and shouldn't have to justify it to anyone.

For me, the value for money of the R36 (for what I get out of it) simply can't be beaten. I am still yet to experience better seats in ANY car and that includes an F430 I was lucky enough to get a ride in! I look at the A5 seats on car sales photos and they look flat and slipery compared with the Alcantara body hugging R36 seats. And that sort of turns me off wanting to do my switch to Audi.

[Buggermedumplings]

For me, the value for money of the R36 (for what I get out of it) simply can't be beaten. I am still yet to experience better seats in ANY car and that includes an F430 I was lucky enough to get a ride in! I look at the A5 seats on car sales photos and they look flat and slipery compared with the Alcantara body hugging R36 seats. And that sort of turns me off wanting to do my switch to Audi.

It's all subjective...I think for a car that borders on $80k you should be getting full leather seats. However that's just me...

[Rocket36]

Full leather isn't as good as Alcantara. Who wants to be slipping around in the twisties?

[R34]

I agree the SB is a beautiful looking car but really that's all it's got.
It's a compromised design that does nothing better than an A4.
I couldn't even sit in the back it has so little head and leg room.
Having said that I still drool when I see one and still love my current Audi.
But in the end I didn't think it was worth the effort of haggling for the SB as to me they're not worth low 80's for the petrol.
Even my wife who has become an Audi nut the last 3 years was unimpressed

But I went through the exerscise of optioning up an A4 with everything the R36 had the list price cost was over $120k.(LCT doesn't help)
Of course you wouldn't do that and would go for a S4
So I was a bit disappointed with Audi as a result.

With regard to the R36 to Audi diesel review in the UK.
They may have been a little less excited by the Audi if the price difference between the two was similar to what it is here.
In the UK I think the price of the two is similar with the R36 being more expensive.

We all like different things and just as well or it would be a boring world
My thoughts expressed about the A5 are just that my thoughts

And for the record I received 10% off my R36

[Buggermedumplings]

Full leather isn't as good as Alcantara. Who wants to be slipping around in the twisties?

True if you're driving a GT3...

However full nappa leather in my TDI is my preference... Again all subjective and personal taste.

[R34]

True if you're driving a GT3...

However full nappa leather in my TDI is my preference... Again all subjective and personal taste.

True but on a mild day my shirt was damp after a test drive of an A5 with leather.
I couldn't even de-option leather.
It looks great but it's a personal hate of mine and also turned me off the CC.

[Rocket36]

True if you're driving a GT3...

WTF??? True... If you're driving ANYTHING!!! Leather is classy but too slippery for proper spirited driving in any car.

However full nappa leather in my TDI is my preference... Again all subjective and personal taste.

Absolutely. Glad you're happy with your choice.

[Buggermedumplings]

True but on a mild day my shirt was damp after a test drive of an A5 with leather.
I couldn't even de-option leather.
It looks great but it's a personal hate of mine and also turned me off the CC.

Active climate seats baby! Sweaty backs are a thing of the past!

[Rocket36]

Active climate seats baby! Sweaty backs are a thing of the past!

That's true... Once they're mainstream, no more sweaty leather.

[tryingavw]

cost of ownership

Start with an estimate of a 40% residual value after 5 years which is reasonable for these cars.

....................Passat..A5
Drive away price: 70K 90K
Residual @40% 28K 36K
Net Cost 42K 54K

Thats a 12K difference.

Factor in the lower fuel costs of the diesel.

Put all this together and there isn't much of a difference in the total cost of ownership..

sorry but i reckon you are really kidding yourself. a 90k car will probably depreciate at a higher % as well, you're out of pocket by 20k ( or much more if leased) , the fuel saving $ will be small and maintenance will probably be higher.

Just admit you could stretch the extra 20k , you like the badge and just wanted the car!

i also went to the audi dealership when i was looking ( a5, diesel AWD i think), but was put of by their price estimates of $110k at the time - sounded way too expensive and they werent that interested . never even drove one in the end. that was around june 2009.

[Rocket36]

Best range I've seen on the .:R36 so far...