Tiguan over the BRZ

[wb47]

Thanks again for your replies guys,

But what is the deal with DSGs anyway I heard many people hate it and many people love it, I have tried reading it throught but just dont get how it is bad/good.

Someone care to explain it to thick me?

[DoggieHowser]

Thanks again for your replies guys,

But what is the deal with DSGs anyway I heard many people hate it and many people love it, I have tried reading it throught but just dont get how it is bad/good.

Someone care to explain it to thick me?

DSG Pros and Cons

Pros
Works just like a manual gearbox in terms of how the gearbox interfaces with the crank and drive shaft, except that the computer controls the clutch engagement, so it's as economical as a manual gearbox vs the traditional slush box aka torque converters

Works much faster than a driver can normally shift with a manual box. I remember when the V GTI was released, Tsuchiya from Best Motoring tried his darndest to outshift the DSG. He was unsuccessful

Gives you manual control over the choice of gears when you need to.


Cons
Most DSGs today are programmed for fuel economy so in auto mode, it tends to upshift more quickly than you may intend so the acceleration may be a big laggy
Some people claim a lot of hesitation changing between 1 and R (and vv), but this is IMHO not much different from a manual box. It's obviously not as smooth as using a torque converter
Some people complain gear shifts are not as smooth as a slush box (it's true) but I find the DSG does it consistently well, vs a human at the clutch pedal which can be a bit inconsistent.
DSG (especially the lower torque rated DQ200 7 speed on the lower engined VW/VAG cars) are a bit problematic and it appears to have a relatively high failure rate, especially if mods are applied. I understand the Tiguan uses the higher rated DQ500 which seems to have lower instances of problems, from what I am reading here.

[tigger73]

Thanks again for your replies guys,

But what is the deal with DSGs anyway I heard many people hate it and many people love it, I have tried reading it throught but just dont get how it is bad/good.

Someone care to explain it to thick me?

Suggest you go and drive one and then make your own mind up.

I have a love/hate relationship with my DSG. Love the quick gear changes and the fact that there's a computer to drive the clutch... which is also the bad thing. The programming of when to change gears doesn't always suit my driving style.

Basically you have 2 auto modes (in the Tig) - "D" and "S" plus a manual/tiptronic mode where you change your own gears.

Simly put "D" mode runs the car in super-economy mode. It is all about running things as fuel efficiently as possible. Upshift eary in gears and get to the highest gear as possible as early as possible to save 0.1l/100km. The issue is that the car won't change back to 1st unless you come to a complete standstill. This can be a problem if you need to get moving in a real hurry - the DSG gearbox won't kick down back into 1st no matter how hard you press the accelerator pedal to the floor.

On the other hand "S" mode will hold the gear a lot longer so that it keeps the engine around 3,000-4,000 RPM and the car is ready to launch at any moment. OK if you're doing some spirited driving in the country, however can be a bit painful if you're driving in city traffic.

The other option is to run it in manual mode which I do quite a bit of the time. I've installed flappy paddles in mine so I can change gears on the steering wheel. Unfortunately this option is not available as a dealer fitted accessory - although in other countries the DSG Tiguans do come with flappy paddle steering wheels.

So unfortunately there's no "happy medium" in the stock auto DSG programs. As long as you're aware of the behaviour of the gearbox you can work with it.

Other options you have available are to remap the DSG or buy a manual or standard auto box while you still can.

[tigger73]

Some people claim a lot of hesitation changing between 1 and R (and vv), but this is IMHO not much different from a manual box.

Actually this is the case in the original DSG DQ250 gearboxes where R and 1st were on the same clutch. In the DQ500 (which Tiguan uses), the dual clutch system has 1-3-5-7 on one clutch and 2-4-6-R on the other. So you can move quickly from 1st to R and back. If you try to change gears on the same clutch (i.e. 2nd to 4th), it will shift to 3rd quickly but there is a delay as 4th gear is selected on the clutch that was previously running 2nd gear.

It's obviously not as smooth as using a torque converter
Some people complain gear shifts are not as smooth as a slush box (it's true) but I find the DSG does it consistently well, vs a human at the clutch pedal which can be a bit inconsistent.

Yep no crunching gears, though downshifting can be a little jerky particularly in "S" as it will run down through the gears more (i.e. pulling up at traffic lights).

DSG (especially the lower torque rated DQ200 7 speed on the lower engined VW/VAG cars) are a bit problematic and it appears to have a relatively high failure rate, especially if mods are applied. I understand the Tiguan uses the higher rated DQ500 which seems to have lower instances of problems, from what I am reading here.

Nice write-up on the 7-speed DQ500 DSG here: Volkswagen Group DSG: the New DQ500

[victorwong]

Hey guys,

So I put in a deposit for a BRZ a few weeks back (expected delivery in August of 2013), however there seems to be many, many problems with the engine and the vehicle in general since it is a totally new model.

I was having a look at the 132TSI manual version and thought it was the best suited for me,

Firstly, what options do you guys recommend I get aftermarket? For example I know its much more cost effective to get the sat nav from ebay and get someone to install it (and its pretty much identical), could the same be said about any other options (equal or better quality for a lower price)?

Looking on carsales.com.au I have chosen the following options:
- Adaptive Chassis Control $1650
- 18" NY Alloy Wheels $2300
- Leather Seats $4000
- Bi-Xenon Headlamps $2100

Secondly my budget is around the 40 grand mark and was wondering with discounts I could get the car with these options.

Oh and if I want to get the 18" NY wheels aftermarket would there need to be a reprogramming of the computer to read the speedo right due to the change in diameter of the wheels?

Thank you so much and I appreciate all input!

Looking at your title, it is kind of funny. cos you would like to buy BRZ or Tiguan. it is totally 2 different types.

I had a 4 gen Liberty non turbo manual before, somehow sold it, cos was planning to go back to HK, however, didnt go back. anyway.

So, after i sold the Liberty, I bought a Tiguan 147, my point was turbo and awd, thought the tiguan was the choose.

now, I want to sell this tiguan and buy a Liberty GT.

Reason:
-thought tiguan was AWD, but 4 motion is 90% front and 10% rear.
-we i am cornering, liberty gave me much more confidence, tiguan is no confidence.
-thought tiguan was small SUV, drove to stocken beach. and got bogged, and my fd has a subaru XV, it was all fine.

so, if you considered BRZ, that means you kind of like sport, manual and cornering. and i can tell you subaru is much more fun(no doubt, tiguan has more electronic and feel sight superior, cos it is euro car)

[ido09s]

-we i am cornering, liberty gave me much more confidence, tiguan is no confidence.
-thought tiguan was small SUV, drove to stocken beach. and got bogged, and my fd has a subaru XV, it was all fine.

so, if you considered BRZ, that means you kind of like sport, manual and cornering. and i can tell you subaru is much more fun(no doubt, tiguan has more electronic and feel sight superior, cos it is euro car)

I must say you would have to be a pretty hard person to please if you feel the Tiguan gives you no confidence as i personally think its an exceptional car given what it is. I also think your comparison of the Liberty v the Tiguan is little apples and oranges given the GT is the performance version of the Liberty and the Tiguan is an 'SUV' which is not aimed at performance at all

Do you know what SUV stands for? Its sports utility vehicle, which the Tiguan is not. SUV seems to be the acronym thrown at anything that remotely resembles a small 4WD type car. Clearly someone also gave you the wrong idea when you looked at purchasing the Tiguan for offroad duties. Anyone who thought for one second that this vehicle was built to take offroad is sadly very wrong. Just because the car is marketed as an AWD does not magically make it a 4WD. Its used for safety and i can tell you now, even though its only a small percentage rwd it works exceptionally well for a car in its price range.

As for the DSG, everything above is echoed by me. Sport is great if you need to turn right and there is traffic coming as it holeds the gears very well. Useless for anything else but drag racing as it holds the gears too long and doesnt change into the higher gears in any decent time frame.

D mode, changes ridiculously quickly and makes it quite hard to drive at times as you need to use at least 50% throttle to get it to kick down. Once it does kick down it shifts down 3 gears and takes off like crazy.

Manual mode would be so much better if it had paddles but works well anyway. It does what you want when you want so it actually makes the car nice to drive, i just wish it had paddles

Shifts are precise and smooth. I have n problems with the actual changes at all, i think it works perfectly.

Changing from drive to reverse, what are you trying to do, run an F1 race with it lol It takes what it takes as it a manual box after all. Most manual boxes take a few seconds to engage so this will be no different

[wb47]

Thank you everyone for you input and opinion, but I have just (foolishly) noticed that the 132TSI Pacific comes in either a Manual or Automatic and no DSG, this is the model I am looking at.

What are your opinions on this Automatic Gearbox?

EDIT: Just to clarify I know that the auto is the wiser choice for long-term reliability but does the auto have the sluggish problems that DSGs have? I have read it is not good for T junctions (the DSG) is this also the case for the regular auto?

Thanks again

[team_v]

Thank you everyone for you input and opinion, but I have just (foolishly) noticed that the 132TSI Pacific comes in either a Manual or Automatic and no DSG, this is the model I am looking at.

What are your opinions on this Automatic Gearbox?

EDIT: Just to clarify I know that the auto is the wiser choice for long-term reliability but does the auto have the sluggish problems that DSGs have? I have read it is not good for T junctions (the DSG) is this also the case for the regular auto?

Thanks again

Regular auto is the slushbox version and doesn't have the "lag" issues the DSG box has.

I can't say I agree with your comments on teh Automatic box being better long term over the 6MT though.

I thought the 132 was going to be released with DSG this year?

[tigger73]

Thank you everyone for you input and opinion, but I have just (foolishly) noticed that the 132TSI Pacific comes in either a Manual or Automatic and no DSG, this is the model I am looking at.

I believe DSG is coming back. If you want a 6 speed auto you need to get in quick as there's reports that new cars being ordered from the factory are coming with 7 speed DSG now.

What are your opinions on this Automatic Gearbox?

Can't really comment as I haven't driven one in a Tig. However 1 sec slower 0-100 time than DSG so it certainly isn't as quick.

EDIT: Just to clarify I know that the auto is the wiser choice for long-term reliability but does the auto have the sluggish problems that DSGs have? I have read it is not good for T junctions (the DSG) is this also the case for the regular auto?

That's people's opinions though auto box has been around longer and is supposedly pretty bullet-proof (based on historically things going wrong with it). Not that I've heard too much on the 7 speed DSG in the Tiguan (totally different gearbox to the Golf).

The issue with DSG is that it short shifts first gear (when in "D") to give better fuel economy. It basically shift out of first as soon as you're in motion which means that the engine can sometimes struggle in 2nd gear until your revs get high enough and then you're away.

If you're aware of this you can (and should) choose an alternative to driving in "D" when you know you're going to need to accelerate moderately hard from (near) stationary. Either select "S" or manual shift (my preferred option) until you're up and running.

Auto doesn't have this issue but it will be less sprightly to drive.

It really comes down to how you want to drive the car. If you don't want to think about what gear you're in then the auto is probably right for you. If you want to interact with the car a bit more but want to be lazy sometimes too then DSG is likely a good fit. And if you don't think a computer is able to change gears better than you (or don't want to pay the extra $) then get the manual.

[wb47]

Thanks everyone for your replies, will the DSG have any changes for the 2013 model Tiguans (I am lazy and dont like thinkign about driving)?

[Transporter]

The DSG has approx. 1L/100km better fuel economy than 6speed auto in TDI Tiguans. We have both variants and the DSG tig is also quiter inside most likely because it's at least 1 year younger. I rushed my order through to get 6speed auto 2.5 years ago, and don't regeret that.

[ido09s]

As Tigger has said, if you are aware of the issues the DSG version has when crossing traffic at right turn intersections you can work around it by moving from D mode into S or manual mode.

Do i find it annoying, i do at times, but i think of it as a safety thing. If your in that much of a hurry that you need to cut people off by turning so closely in front of them then you shouldnt be on the road anyway

[Diesel_vert]

And if you don't think a computer is able to change gears better than you (or don't want to pay the extra $) then get the manual.

Regarding the DSG, there's certainly nothing wrong with gearshift itself (fast, smooth and precise) but it's sometimes terrible at deciding when to change gear.

But until we can buy telepathic gearboxes, autos will always be autos.

[tigger73]

Regarding the DSG, there's certainly nothing wrong with gearshift itself (fast, smooth and precise) but it's sometimes terrible at deciding when to change gear.

But until we can buy telepathic gearboxes, autos will always be autos.

Yeah 95% of the time it's fine. Just the last 5% you need to over-ride and generally these are times that you want to have more direct control over the vehicle anyway. So for me I don't mind it - actually helps to be a bit more engaged.

Though I'd actually prefer that it kicked back down to 1st if you planted your boot when you're in "D". So we'll see how things go but a DSG tune may be the fix.

[Diesel_vert]

Yeah 95% of the time it's fine. Just the last 5% you need to over-ride and generally these are times that you want to have more direct control over the vehicle anyway. So for me I don't mind it - actually helps to be a bit more engaged.

Though I'd actually prefer that it kicked back down to 1st if you planted your boot when you're in "D". So we'll see how things go but a DSG tune may be the fix.

Yes, for most people, it's fine for the most part. However, like with all autos, you have that same feeling where the driver has to wait for the car (frequently annoying, but sometimes unnerving).

With a manual gearbox, the car waits for the driver (damn straight!). So if the gearbox has flappy paddles, you can at least override the ECU's shift program.