Ceramic Brake Pads

[GRD]

Fitted a set of Ate Ceramic pads on the front of the Tiguan, (162 kw) today.
These are the superseded ones 13.0470.2764.2
Bought them from an Aust. Supplier even though they were a bit dearer than from the US. about $50 difference.
They were $245 with postage.
The US site was showing that they would not fit the 2018 162 kw Tiguan.
They do fit.
The only two differences between these pads and the OE ones are the lack of a center groove and the slope of the shamfer.
The contact area of the ceramic pad looks larger than the OE.

The VW part number of the OE pads is 5Q 068151K

Haven't done may Km s yet, just some bedding in, about a dozen stops from 60 - 80 Kph. They don't feel any different.
I'll post up on the dust once the car has done some more mileage.

Must say these were the easiest pads I've changed out, Just two bolts to undo.
I was surprised how much the OE pads had worn in 9,000 km, assuming they started the same thickness as the Ate pads I'd be down to 5 mm by 20,000 km. No wonder they make so much dust.

[iDiesel]

Would the ceramic pads be harder and therefore more aggressive when you apply the brakes?
Should they last longer than the OEM pads?

[Kachingg]

Would the ceramic pads be harder and therefore more aggressive when you apply the brakes?
Should they last longer than the OEM pads?

They are harder than than oem pads not more aggressive but just nice and progressive


They build up a layer of ceramic on the rotor itself and this is what it uses to brake so wear on your disc is minimized and the pads last about 2 times give or take longer than stock ones

The reason euro pads are soft and wear quick is there is a regulation in the euro zone that cars must be able to stop in a certain distance from speed with no brake booster assistance hence the need for soft grippy high wear pads that also dust up like crazy

I have had ceramic pads fitted for 45k on my car and will fit them again when needed

Just recently checked the pad depths and at most have lost 1mm or 2mm in that time still heaps of depth on the pads will get way over 100k out of them

Just remember it is advised to fit new rotors at the same time as the ceramic pads

[Simonr23]

Not sure I buy into the theory of less disc wear and less pad wear and equal/better performance. I think the laws of physics have a say in all this...

[Transporter]

Not sure I buy into the theory of less disc wear and less pad wear and equal/better performance. I think the laws of physics have a say in all this...

Then you obviously didn’t use them.
I fit them and have a few customers who done more than 200,000km on one set and the discs have a minimum or now wear.

[Simonr23]

It’s true, I haven’t. But really, it’s win/win/win?

Why would anyone use anything else? I come from a road racing motorbike (m50 monobloc brembos) background- so cost of pads/discs isn’t the concern for me. I assumed that like other materials, you can’t have good wear(disc or pads), feel and longevity.

[iDiesel]

Just remember it is advised to fit new rotors at the same time as the ceramic pads

So $245 for new pads.
How much are new rotors?

[Transporter]

It’s true, I haven’t. But really, it’s win/win/win?

Why would anyone use anything else? I come from a road racing motorbike (m50 monobloc brembos) background- so cost of pads/discs isn’t the concern for me. I assumed that like other materials, you can’t have good wear(disc or pads), feel and longevity.

Even if the Ceramic pads cost double, you save on the discs second time you need new pads and most people wouldn’t keep the car for 300,000km to fit the second set of Ceramics on. In which you’d still be ahead because you don’t have to replace the discs.
As for the braking performance there is no difference, even if you’re very aggressive driver.

[Diesel_vert]

Would the ceramic pads be harder and therefore more aggressive when you apply the brakes?
Should they last longer than the OEM pads?

From their FAQ (courtesy of Google Translate):

Due to the use of ATE Ceramic, after a short break-in phase, a blue-gray "transfer film" forms on the brake disc, which consists of very hard and wear-resistant carbides. Figuratively speaking, the braking of the brake lining is thus no longer directly on the brake disc, but on this transfer film. The wear of the brake disc is thus significantly reduced.

This phenomenon is also known as adhesive friction (as opposed to abrasive friction).

Not sure I buy into the theory of less disc wear and less pad wear and equal/better performance. I think the laws of physics have a say in all this...

You are correct. You can never get around physics.

... But really, it’s win/win/win?

Our understanding of tribology (the study of friction, wear, lubrication, and the design of bearings; the science of interacting surfaces in relative motion) is such that producing a commercially viable brake pad that performs well at both low and high speeds is still beyond the reach of the consumer.

In general, each type of friction material; low-met (European passenger cars), NAO (Japanese passenger cars), semi-met (heavy-duty vehicles) and sintered (motorcycles), have their pros and cons. Refer to Google for comparisons of performance characteristics.

In terms of content, a standard brake pad fitted in European passenger cars has a steel content of between 10% to 30%, hence the term low-met.

ATE Ceramic brake pads have zero ferrous or steel content, which would classify them as NAO pads.

Broadly speaking, low-mets provide good wear and performance characteristics at high speeds, and NAO provides good wear and performance characteristics at low speeds. Note that high speed in this context refers to the sorts of speeds that are legal and commonly experienced in Europe on public roads, but not in Asia, America or Australia.

Indeed, users on the German motoring forum www.motor-talk.de have indicated that ATE Ceramics are less suited to repeated high speed brake applications on the Autobahn than standard low-mets. Again, they are obviously talking of speeds which would promptly land you in court here.

ATE are upfront about it and they state that (courtesy of Google Translate):

ATE Ceramic is not a high performance pad or racing brake pad. The pad has been designed for use in normal traffic conditions and offers a longer service life under normal driving conditions, less noise and significantly reduced brake dust on the rims. ATE Ceramic brake pads are not to be confused with brake pads for ceramic composite brake discs used in high-priced sports and luxury vehicles. In contrast to conventional brake pads, ATE Ceramic brake pads contain mild abrasives and no steel components. Typical characteristics are the lighter coating mass, the noise reduction during braking, the low wear under everyday driving conditions and a significantly low brake dust development. ATE Ceramic is aimed at the comfort-oriented driver. Under these driving conditions, the pad offers greater pad and disc life, less noise and significantly reduced brake dust on the vehicle rims.

We generally do not recommend using the Powerdisc and perforated brake discs in combination with the ATE Ceramic pads.

So yes, it can be win/win - provided that ceramic pads match the needs and expectations of the individual.

[davman]

Just remember it is advised to fit new rotors at the same time as the ceramic pads

Is this recommendation due to the way that ceramic pads work (needing to put a coating on the disk), or is it mainly due to the fact that you may of already done 30,000 kays on the existing discs - and you should just replace them as you could/would a normal set of pads.

For example if you have only done 5,000kays on the existing discs, and you want to swap over to ATE's, would you still need to replace the discs?

[GRD]

I fitted these pads purely for the low dust aspect.
I haven't driven the car much yet and have not at this stage noticed any drop in performance.
If there is a reduction in performance I can live with that, 340 mm discs on a car of this weight, more than ample.
I've opted not to change the discs, they're done very little mileage.
I generally keep a pretty close watch on all my vehicles.
I should think that if there is an issue with this it should show up in the next few weeks.
I'll let you know.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

So $245 for new pads.
How much are new rotors?

If you're interested, find me the DBA part number (I have a trade account)

[GRD]

Update

I've done about 400km on the ceramic pads now.
The feel is the same as the originals.
The dust is greatly reduced, at a guess about 90%.
The photos don't show up much, but there is just a very light dust coating on the front wheels. Clean up was also much easier, hit the wheels with a hose, the nozzle set to the highest pressure and finish with a wipe dry using a chamois, that's it, no brush used, no residue on the chamois.
Extremely happy with the pads.



I'm seriously considering changing out the rears, even though thy don't dust up as much as the fronts.

[spacemannz]

I fitted these pads purely for the low dust aspect.
I haven't driven the car much yet and have not at this stage noticed any drop in performance.
If there is a reduction in performance I can live with that, 340 mm discs on a car of this weight, more than ample.
I've opted not to change the discs, they're done very little mileage.
I generally keep a pretty close watch on all my vehicles.
I should think that if there is an issue with this it should show up in the next few weeks.
I'll let you know.

Thanks for the info. What do you deem low milage? I'm at 11,000K and the dust is driving me nuts.
I don't wanna shell out for new rotors, but the price of front pads vs my OCD cleaning fetish is palatable.

[Transporter]

Thanks for the info. What do you deem low milage? I'm at 11,000K and the dust is driving me nuts.
I don't wanna shell out for new rotors, but the price of front pads vs my OCD cleaning fetish is palatable.

You shouldn’t have to. Just clean the working surface of the disc with 120grit sand paper and you can fit the ATE Ceramics. I’ve done exactly that on our Tiguan at 12,000km and no noises, for the past 9 years.