Razor80 Stage 3 Allspace R Build

[Razor80]

Thanks for that Lucas_R. Wow they really are renowned for their performance and quality values. Maybe in the car fanatics area I was exposed too, I didn't get to see this in action or being recommended.

I prefer to purchase brand new components and if I went the Golf R or RS3 setup these would be (im guessing) hard to find and/or almost as expensive as the Alcon setup? What size afe these standard anyway?

The guy told me that these kits will fit straight on but would need to order custom hats and brackets which can take 4-6 weeks.

Does anyone know where I can get aftermarket kits fitted in Melbourne?

[Razor80]

Also what setups is good for the rears or will the standard OEM setup be sufficient for what I intend to use it for? Im guessing it'll need to be compatible with the electronic handbrake?

[tigger73]

Rays Big Brakes

Also what setups is good for the rears or will the standard OEM setup be sufficient for what I intend to use it for? Im guessing it'll need to be compatible with the electronic handbrake?

Hardest park is finding something compatible with the electronic handbrake. You're better off going with a pad (and rotor?) upgrade for the rear only. Pads have the most effect and rotors just for looks

I'm getting a set of the Alcon 6 pots with DBA T3 rotors fitted up tomorrow.

[Razor80]

Hardest park is finding something compatible with the electronic handbrake. You're better off going with a pad (and rotor?) upgrade for the rear only. Pads have the most effect and rotors just for looks

I'm getting a set of the Alcon 6 pots with DBA T3 rotors fitted up tomorrow.

Thanks tigger73, I was thinking pads for the rear as being an easier option. I can see this rear clipper being a headache!

That's exactly the colour caliper I was looking at, don't won't the red or black standing out too much and would blend better with the rear.

What size rotor have you gone for with the DBA? What pads are you planning to use?

[tigger73]

Thanks tigger73, I was thinking pads for the rear as being an easier option. I can see this rear clipper being a headache!

That's exactly the colour caliper I was looking at, don't won't the red or black standing out too much and would blend better with the rear.

What size rotor have you gone for with the DBA? What pads are you planning to use?

They’re a 378mm rotor. Not sure on pads will find outplayed today as the workshop I go to (Haines Mechanical & Detail) is fitting the kit.

Brake calipers have actually been painted since this pic. Long story short the brakes had been bought in and repainted for another customer who ended up not going through with the install.


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[doc_777]

Fitting larger capacity calipers won’t help you if the master cylinder isn’t up to the task. Larger calipers (greats number of pistons, larger piston volume) require a larger amount of fluid to be pumped to them to result in the same clamping pressure. There will be slight variations due to a larger swept area producing greater friction with less clamping pressure, but unless the factory master cylinder is up to the task you’re asking of it, then you’re going to require higher pedal pressure to achieve the same clamping pressure (you have to push the pedal harder than you do now to get the same stopping power), and ultimate braking capacity could quite possibly be reduced.

Physical fit is only one of the factors to consider. Arguably the most important one - compatibility of the replacement calipers with the factory master cylinder - is the one most often overlooked.

[Razor80]

Fitting larger capacity calipers won’t help you if the master cylinder isn’t up to the task. Larger calipers (greats number of pistons, larger piston volume) require a larger amount of fluid to be pumped to them to result in the same clamping pressure. There will be slight variations due to a larger swept area producing greater friction with less clamping pressure, but unless the factory master cylinder is up to the task you’re asking of it, then you’re going to require higher pedal pressure to achieve the same clamping pressure (you have to push the pedal harder than you do now to get the same stopping power), and ultimate braking capacity could quite possibly be reduced.

Physical fit is only one of the factors to consider. Arguably the most important one - compatibility of the replacement calipers with the factory master cylinder - is the one most often overlooked.

Thanks doc_777. This is what I am concerned about whether the standard hydraulic system will be adequate once fronts are upgraded. Will the rears loose pressure or vice versa?
Ive spoken to George at Alcon and he's positive these will be fine on the MQB standard system. So now im confused!

[tigger73]

Just fitted a set of Alcon 6 pots up today and can confirm a few things:

1) Tiguan uses the same brake master cylinder as Mk7 Golf R.

2) The actual volume of the 6 pots isn’t massively different than the stock brakes as there’s 6 smaller pistons instead of 2 larger ones on the stock brakes.

3) The Alcon brakes and rotors are lighter than the stock setup (even though they are bigger).

I do have a bit more pedal travel before the brakes bite but need to bleed the brakes again. Also need to do a few 100-0 stops to get them properly bed in. Fronts do pull up harder


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[Razor80]

Just fitted a set of Alcon 6 pots up today and can confirm a few things:

1) Tiguan uses the same brake master cylinder as Mk7 Golf R.

2) The actual volume of the 6 pots isn’t massively different than the stock brakes as there’s 6 smaller pistons instead of 2 larger ones on the stock brakes.

3) The Alcon brakes and rotors are lighter than the stock setup (even though they are bigger).

I do have a bit more pedal travel before the brakes bite but need to bleed the brakes again. Also need to do a few 100-0 stops to get them properly bed in. Fronts do pull up harder


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Thanks again tigger73 - You always return with some reassuring advice.

By the looks of the pistons they look like there staggered in size rather then the same size for all six. I'm guessing this is the help with the BMC with fluid pressure?

Hopefully once you've bleed them and bedded them in the pedal feel will improve. Are you keeping your rears stock? I'm not sure whether to change the pads and leave the standard rotors to gain a better response from them.

Btw - Howlong did your order take from ordering to being delivered?

[tigger73]

Rays Big Brakes

By the looks of the pistons they look like there staggered in size rather then the same size for all six. I'm guessing this is the help with the BMC with fluid pressure?

Not 100% sure but I’ve seen it on a few 6 pot brakes. Probably because this gives more even wear and best performance/feel??

Hopefully once you've bleed them and bedded them in the pedal feel will improve. Are you keeping your rears stock? I'm not sure whether to change the pads and leave the standard rotors to gain a better response from them.

I’ll possibly upgrade the rears with pads/rotors at a later stage. Pads can give you better initial bite if that’s what you’re after. Also some people change to ATE ceramics for less dust.

Btw - Howlong did your order take from ordering to being delivered?

These are normally around 4 weeks for the calipers plus a few days for painting. All the rotors/pads/hats etc are off he shelf items locally.

My workshop had these from a cancelled customer order so I was able to pick them up and get fitted without having to wait.


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[doc_777]

If the volume of the pistons/slave cylinders is greater on the new calipers than the volume on the old calipers then yes - you will get increase pedal travel - that is just science doing its thing. If the difference is truly minor, then that additional pedal travel shouldn’t affect everyday use. If the pedal hits the floor however, the you’re crap outta luck.

[Razor80]

Yes i'm after a better bite as i'm sure the bite from the from 6's up front would be a lot sharper. Thought this may solve some braking issues in the wet maybe? Just don't want pads that'll chew the OEM rotors in no time.

Could I ask where you purchased all your goods from locally (PM me if it's a secret)?
The ETA for the hats and brackets are 4-6 weeks to be custom made (overseas I'm assuming) but could run into delays and ultimately delay things. Only issue they seem to have some negative reviews with their delivery times etc that concerns me, especially payment in full!

Your red calliper's in your thread looks real nice on a black car. Not sure what would suit mine, silver/grey or black?

[Razor80]

If the volume of the pistons/slave cylinders is greater on the new calipers than the volume on the old calipers then yes - you will get increase pedal travel - that is just science doing its thing. If the difference is truly minor, then that additional pedal travel shouldn’t affect everyday use. If the pedal hits the floor however, the you’re crap outta luck.

Brakesdirect are reassuring that this kit is well suited to be fitted to OEM setup with no major issues. Also to be used with the standard rubber lines as there is some misconception between them and braided hoses. Advises my car is not 20 years old technology.

Would you suggest using there 4 pot version with the 355mm rotors over the 6 pot's?

[Razor80]

I've listed what I'm going to do to my car in the big Turbo thread if you want to take a look.
Quite similar to yours with a few extras.

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Pretty impressive mate, would be interesting to see what figures we both get on the dyno's.

I am also upgrading my brakes, got to secure my investment and to be able to stop!

[Beedub]

Thanks. It's been frustrating to find that not everything for the Golf fits the Tig, mainly because I wanted to go all Racingline, but first world problems and all that.

I've picked the parts myself after seeing what others on here have done, and I have been in touch with a tuner but only briefly.
Just waiting for everything to arrive now.
The turbo and downpipe shipped yesterday and the racingline gear shouldn't be too far off either.
Now to smuggle them all without the wife noticing.

No idea when I'll book it in yet. With a newborn just arrived I'm not making things easy, especially considering the tuner said they'd need 3 days with the car.
I'm a dead man walking haha.

I'm also thinking brakes may need an upgrade and as usual tigger is making me jealous with his recent purchase.
I'll shelve that for now.
Swapping out the muffler for a Golf R is also on the cards at some point. Who knows, maybe a proper Tig R will launch and make that an easier job.

Good luck with your Tig!

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