Towing Limits on MY18 TIGUAN 140TDI

[Sydneykid]

Just for the record:
1) are you suggesting the "load equalisers" are reducing the towball weight below below the 100kg limit or do you acknowledge you exceed the allowable limit?
2) the Owners Manual clearly states that "weight-distributing or load-balancing towing brackets" are NOT to be fitted.
In the event of an insurance claim or warranty claim your insurance company / VW will certainly care.

1) No of course not, what I am suggesting is that load equalisers do exactly that, equalise the load by taking some "weight" off the rear of the tow car and adding it to the front. Hence no bum dragging, which is primarily for increased safety with the bonus that it doesn't attract attention.

2) Conversely my trailer manufacturer recommends load equalisation and fits the necessary hardware. So does my tow hitch manufacturer. So which manual do I choose to follow?

3) In the event of insurance or warranty claim how in the hell will the insurance company or my local VW dealer know the tow ball weight? FWIW my trailer and race car are insured with Shannons and I'm sure that they would be far more concerned with following the trailer and hitch "manuals" than the tow car "manual".

The bottom line, I could easily get the tow ball weight under 100 kgs (move the car on the trailer) but it doesn't tow very well with the balance at ~6% of the towing weight. The fact is it tows much better closer to 10%, with less sensitivity to direction changes and road surface conditions. The choice is to follow the VW manual or towing safety, I choose the latter.


Cheers
Gary

[Sydneykid]

I really dont care if you choose to exceed the vehicles limits and falsely think by using stabilisers you are lightening the ballweight.
As I said moving weight rearwards is fraught with dangers but of course having been doing it for 30 years makes it all right.
For those new to the vehicle the manufacturers limit on the towball is there for a reason and should be adhered to.
A good example of the effect of poor loading is shown here YouTube
This is often the reason for van and trailer rollovers, where it has been loaded rear heavy and starts snaking as shown in the video.
Was several examples on TV last night where the vans were snaking and crashed spectacularly.

I'm not sure what the video has to do with tow ball weight, it's about weight distribution over the trailer. What I did notice is that rear weight was moved much further from the centre than the front weight. Hence the CoB was moved rearwards plus at the same time the tow ball weight was reduced. Both far from ideal on a single axle trailer. What the good Dr did (moving the CoB rearwards) was exactly the opposite to my methodology (moving the CoB forwards).

To be clear, I don't load rear heavy, it was not what I was suggesting and I would never recommend it.

Cheers
Gary

[Guest001]

1) No of course not, what I am suggesting is that load equalisers do exactly that, equalise the load by taking some "weight" off the rear of the tow car and adding it to the front. Hence no bum dragging, which is primarily for increased safety with the bonus that it doesn't attract attention.

2) Conversely my trailer manufacturer recommends load equalisation and fits the necessary hardware. So does my tow hitch manufacturer. So which manual do I choose to follow?

3) In the event of insurance or warranty claim how in the hell will the insurance company or my local VW dealer know the tow ball weight? FWIW my trailer and race car are insured with Shannons and I'm sure that they would be far more concerned with following the trailer and hitch "manuals" than the tow car "manual".

The bottom line, I could easily get the tow ball weight under 100 kgs (move the car on the trailer) but it doesn't tow very well with the balance at ~6% of the towing weight. The fact is it tows much better closer to 10%, with less sensitivity to direction changes and road surface conditions. The choice is to follow the VW manual or towing safety, I choose the latter.


Cheers
Gary

Always follow the vehicle manufacturers manual.
EG back in the 1990's Toyota 80 series up till 1995 had a towing limit of 2500kg The HR towbars that fitted were 3500kg limited. In 1996 Toyota upped the towing limit of the vehicle to 3500kg, apparently without any mechanical upgrades. Howls of protests from earlier model owners but Toyota refused to change the limits. Made it a bit ludicrous but thats what it was. Same as with Aus vehicles having different limits to other country specced ones. There must be a reason but they wont tell us unfortunately.

Nissan had huge problems with a certain model of an Xtrail where due to towing forces factory towbars were literally ripped off chassis.
Aftemarket bars didnt have the same problems for some reason but it is best to stick to the "vehicle' limits and not the towbar maker who may or may not say "dont worry it fits its ok". They dont design the arse of the tow vehicle and know its engineering limits, they just want sales.

[Colonel]

Just on the load equalisers; The manual specifically prohibits the use of load equalisers as the chassis cannot handle the weight transfer

[Guest001]

I'm not sure what the video has to do with tow ball weight, it's about weight distribution over the trailer. What I did notice is that rear weight was moved much further from the centre than the front weight. Hence the CoB was moved rearwards plus at the same time the tow ball weight was reduced. Both far from ideal on a single axle trailer. What the good Dr did (moving the CoB rearwards) was exactly the opposite to my methodology (moving the CoB forwards).

To be clear, I don't load rear heavy, it was not what I was suggesting and I would never recommend it.

Cheers
Gary

Basically adding weight to the rear as well as unbalancing the rig lightens the ball weight and as you alluded to swapping fuel out of the tug into towed vehicles boot I figured that was what meant Is basically the same as what the Prof did
Quote
ever so easy to move the car back a few mm and get down to 100 kgs. Or swap 40 litres of race fuel from the Tig to the race car boot.

If that isnt shifting weight rearward I dont know what is.

The proper choice is use a vehicle that allows the weights you have
We bought a Patrol which we thought was ideal and then bought a van which both exceeded allowable ATM of Patrol and also ballweight.

Did we say stuff it She'll be right. No we went and spent another $23,000 and bought a Cruiser that had plenty of capacity and is what we should have bought in the first place. We were very happy we did in the end.

[Sydneykid]

Basically adding weight to the rear as well as unbalancing the rig lightens the ball weight and as you alluded to swapping fuel out of the tug into towed vehicles boot I figured that was what meant Is basically the same as what the Prof did
Quote
ever so easy to move the car back a few mm and get down to 100 kgs. Or swap 40 litres of race fuel from the Tig to the race car boot.

If that isnt shifting weight rearward I dont know what is.

The proper choice is use a vehicle that allows the weights you have
We bought a Patrol which we thought was ideal and then bought a van which both exceeded allowable ATM of Patrol and also ballweight.

Did we say stuff it She'll be right. No we went and spent another $23,000 and bought a Cruiser that had plenty of capacity and is what we should have bought in the first place. We were very happy we did in the end.

I think you aren't reading what I actually wrote, I'll try and spell it out. The "move the fuel" reference was about passing some random tow ball weight test carried by someone, somewhere, not a permanent answer. As per the previous post I don't know who "they" would be, but if "they" ever did, then I have an easily reversible solution to pass the test.

Actual measurement and testing of the load distribution is far from "she'll be right". Based on real world experience I believed that more than 100 kgs would be necessary to give safe towing, together with load equalisation, using the Tig. I tested it and any less than 145 kgs at the tow ball could be felt as an instability. Once I had established what performed best I used my corner weight scales to measure it so that I could duplicate it in the future. We do have different load requirements for interstate race meetings compared to local ones (more spares, fuel, tyres etc).

Indirectly related, the Tig isn't my usual tow vehicle, I normally use a Stagea Waggon which, being 20 years old, has no weight limits on how much it can tow or how much weight its tow bar can handle. So experience and testing together with regular checking and maintenance is the only method of determining it's limitations.

Cheers
Gary

[Sydneykid]

Just on the load equalisers; The manual specifically prohibits the use of load equalisers as the chassis cannot handle the weight transfer

What does "can't handle the weight transfer" actually mean. Is it that the chassis can't handle 50 kgs of weight transferred from the back wheels to the front wheels? Isn't that the same as having, say, an 80 kgs person in the back seat and moving them to the front seat? Or starting off with 60 litres of fuel and running it down to zero? Does it mean that the chassis can't handle 50 kgs more weight on the front axle from a load transfer hitch but it can handle an 2 x 80 kgs passengers sitting in the front seats? What if I take one of the front seat passengers and move them to the rear seat and then use the hitch to move 50 kgs from the rear to the front? What's the difference?

Load hitch weight transfer is more about the capability of the tow bar and its mounting rather than the chassis's capability, let's face it we aren't talking about tonnes here.

FWIW I worked for 5 different car manufacturers and I have asked everyone that I know similar questions and none of them have an answer. The most common response is it's their risk minimisation.


Cheers
Gary

[Guest001]

What does "can't handle the weight transfer" actually mean. Is it that the chassis can't handle 50 kgs of weight transferred from the back wheels to the front wheels? Isn't that the same as having, say, an 80 kgs person in the back seat and moving them to the front seat? Or starting off with 60 litres of fuel and running it down to zero? Does it mean that the chassis can't handle 50 kgs more weight on the front axle from a load transfer hitch but it can handle an 2 x 80 kgs passengers sitting in the front seats? What if I take one of the front seat passengers and move them to the rear seat and then use the hitch to move 50 kgs from the rear to the front? What's the difference?

Load hitch weight transfer is more about the capability of the tow bar and its mounting rather than the chassis's capability, let's face it we aren't talking about tonnes here.

FWIW I worked for 5 different car manufacturers and I have asked everyone that I know similar questions and none of them have an answer. The most common response is it's their risk minimisation.


Cheers
Gary

And what is the towbar attached to Yes thats right the subframe of the vehicle. Which is engineered to take certain stresses and as found out by Nissan the subframe collapsed when those stresses became too much. That is why manufacturers have limits and recommend you dont overload them.
A WDH does put extra stress on chassis components and has been exhaustively debated on the Caravanners forum.

By the way it operates it pulls the rear of the car and the towbar to a straighter position and when the rig tries to bend that joint as in going through a dip in the road it puts increased force on the towbar and A frame. Thats why its recommended you do not use one in offroad conditions or going through spoon drains Your analogy of shifting passengers means nothing as there is no force on the towbar when doing that.

Also to say a Stagea because no limit is set can tow anything is a false premise

From NSW law

If the vehicle manufacturer has not specified the maximum towing mass, the maximum towing mass is:

One and a half times the unladen mass of the towing vehicle, provided that the trailer is fitted with brakes which are connected and in working order, or
The unladen mass of the towing vehicle if the trailer does not require brakes.

So how does that go towing 1900kg with your Stagea

[Alex31]

Towing Limits on MY18 TIGUAN 140TDI

Wow, feel sorry for Original post.
Just ensure the boat is no more than 2125kg (85% of 2500kg) including trailer and everything in the boat and you will be fine.
Don’t drive like a muppet, and when you go to leave the boat ramp don’t stuff around (DSG won’t like that)
Seriously


Mk7.5 Golf R DSG. White Silver
Mk7 Golf TDI Highline. Limestone Green.

Family member VAG’s:
Amarok TDI420 Auto
Skoda Superb TDI140

[Sydneykid]

And what is the towbar attached to Yes thats right the subframe of the vehicle. Which is engineered to take certain stresses and as found out by Nissan the subframe collapsed when those stresses became too much. That is why manufacturers have limits and recommend you dont overload them.

On the Tig and my Stagea the tow bars are attached to the chassis rails, not the subframe. The closest is the rear suspension subframe which is a long way from where the tow bar is attached.

Tow bars have widely different attachment methodology, for example together with the tow bar manufacturer we over specified the hell out of the bolts, brackets and reinforcement in the Stagea. On the Nissan example, I believe that the factory tow bars had problems but the aftermarkets did not. That indicates a weakness in the Nissan OE tow bar attachment, not the Nissan chassis.

Which is kinda my point, how does VW know how well (or otherwise) an aftermarket tow bar manufacturer has spec'd the attachment hardware so that they (VW) can specify the maximum tow ball weight? Sure they can specify a maximum tow ball weight for their tow bar, but not for others.

A WDH does put extra stress on chassis components and has been exhaustively debated on the Caravanners forum.

As per my post above that's just nonsense if referring to the OE chassis in general. In reference to the tow bar attachment methodology and hardware that's more palpable.

By the way it operates it pulls the rear of the car and the towbar to a straighter position and when the rig tries to bend that joint as in going through a dip in the road it puts increased force on the towbar and A frame. Thats why its recommended you do not use one in offroad conditions or going through spoon drains Your analogy of shifting passengers means nothing as there is no force on the towbar when doing that.

I think you are agreeing with me that the chassis is more than capable of handling the load transfer and that the tow bar (and its attachment) is what is in fact relevant.

Also to say a Stagea because no limit is set can tow anything is a false premise

We were was talking about tow ball weight and the Stagea has none specified.

From NSW law .....

Not relevant to this discussion, nice diversion though.

So how does that go towing 1900kg with your Stagea

At ~1650 kgs, wet and empty, towing 1.9 tonnes is a doddle.


Cheers
Gary

[tomskiboy]

Hi All,
Thanks for all the replies guys. Sorry for the delayed reply as life's been a bit hectic.

We've decided on a Stessco Gulf Runner for our boat. The problem now is deciding which size. The 550 comes on a single axle trailer and it would weigh 1360kg fully laden BMT + fuel + gear. The 580 model comes on a dual axle trailer and wheighs 1570kg fully laden.

I must state that I am a novice when it comes to towing (but I am a quick learner).

Based on the Tigs specs from owners manual
Tare weight = 1735kg
GVM = 2340kg
Max GCM = 4460kg
Max trailer weight up gradients 12% = 2200kg (owners man pg 350)
Max Towball weight=100kg

Based on this info and feedback here. Towing 1570kg should be safe (<80% GVM) as long as the trailer is balanced and Towball weight is under 100kg.

We plan to drive from Sydney down to Gippsland lakes and as far North as Hervey Bay. So I do want a safe and reliable tow setup.

Do you guys agree that 1570kg is safe and would recommend dual or single axle? I was thinking the dual would have better load distribution (even though I'll be loosing some maneuverability in tight places)

Thanks again all
T

[Redfernpoint]

https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/reviews/2018/Family/Volkswagen/Tiguan/volkswagen-tiguan-2018-tow-test-review-113131