Mk 8 Golf

[Sydneykid]

I have no interest in buying an electric car for myself, because I'm too much of a petrol head. I also get really worked up by "greenwashing".

Nonetheless the evidence that electric cars are demonstrably better (or perhaps "less worse") for the environment in terms of net carbon emissions is very clear. The financial payback is also there, if you do a lot of kms of mostly city driving (e.g. fleet cars). Otherwise if your prime concern with a car is cost of ownership, the answer is to buy a Hyundai i20.

The government doesn't need to subsidise charging infrastructure. We already have it. There are under-utilised powerlines on every street. Our power bills are going up largely because of fixed network charges (poles & wires). If those poles & wires are better utilised, the fixed costs are spread out more and the amortized price of a unit of energy (kWh) will drop. Of the 25-30c you pay for a kWh of energy, roughly only 6c is the wholesale price to generate that unit of energy.

The biggy is where the electrical energy comes from of course. Electric cars will still provide a marginal net benefit in terms of lifecycle analysis of their environmental impact even if run totally on coal electricity, however obviously if you can charge it from renewable sources it will be much cleaner (or "less dirty").

There are also the benefits of energy security and volatility. If you drive a petrol car, your energy costs and security are pretty much totally at the mercy of international producers, most of whom are not our friends. On the other hand, as a country we can be 100% self sufficient for our electrical energy.

So you might have your opinion about an ideology, which is fine, but most of it is actually just sensible logic and not ideology at all. The problem is you only ever hear from the noisy preachy ones who are ideologues.

*edit* P.S. I am an electrical engineer who has done a significant amount of work in this field and was recently commissioned by the Qld Govt to write a paper about it.

Apparently the Government is looking at 1 million electric cars by 2020. As an electrical engineer can you explain how, when 1 million cars arrive home from work at, say, 7pm and get plugged into charge, where the electricity will come from? The sun has set and as a result there's no solar power and the wind isn't blowing today. Considering a Tesla S needs 90kwh to charge from empty, where is that amount of power coming from? Will the wiring in my street be able to supply the number of electric cars?


Cheers
Gary

[Paul_R]

You’ve indirectly answered your own question. You wouldn’t plug it in at home. It would be plugged in at work. Plus, you won’t need to charge every car fully every day.

[Sydneykid]

You’ve indirectly answered your own question. You wouldn’t plug it in at home. It would be plugged in at work.
Plus, you won’t need to charge every car fully every day.

Nice side step of the practical issues, full credit, but they still remain.

My work is going to pay for charging my car? I don't think so.
Our open air ground level car park at work fits 200 odd cars, that's a hell of a lot of power and a lot of charging points. Who is going to pay for them, installation and maintenance?
I have driven a Tesla S to work and it needed charging every second day. Even then it was risky because I can be called out, a couple of hundred K's round trip, and can't afford to run out of charge.

There are real world, practical issues that get swept under the carpet, but they aren't going away.


Cheers
Gary

[Idle]

Nice side step of the practical issues, full credit, but they still remain.

There are real world, practical issues that get swept under the carpet, but they aren't going away.

Cheers
Gary

Another real world practical issue is that, one fine day, fossil fuels are going to disappear, never to be seen on this planet again.
It won't happen today, tomorrow, nor even yet next week, but one day the inevitable is going to hit the fan, and what does A do then?
That, to my mind, is what the frantic effort to develop alternative power sources is mostly about -- the impending threat dwarfs pollution and noise.

Think on it

Idle

[Transporter]

Apparently the Government is looking at 1 million electric cars by 2020. As an electrical engineer can you explain how, when 1 million cars arrive home from work at, say, 7pm and get plugged into charge, where the electricity will come from? The sun has set and as a result there's no solar power and the wind isn't blowing today. Considering a Tesla S needs 90kwh to charge from empty, where is that amount of power coming from? Will the wiring in my street be able to supply the number of electric cars?


Cheers
Gary

Affordability and convenience for average person is where the full electric car will hit its first big obstacle. I can’t see the secondhand electric car market either.
I can’t wait to see how Volvo will prosper from 2019, producing only electric or hybrid cars. Despite they still didn’t produce single full electric car.
All Volvo cars to be electric or hybrid from 2019 | Business | The Guardian

[Sydneykid]

Another real world practical issue is that, one fine day, fossil fuels are going to disappear, never to be seen on this planet again.
It won't happen today, tomorrow, nor even yet next week, but one day the inevitable is going to hit the fan, and what does A do then?
That, to my mind, is what the frantic effort to develop alternative power sources is mostly about -- the impending threat dwarfs pollution and noise.
Think on it
Idle

Actually I have thought on it and I'm old enough to remember that back in the 70's it was predicted that we would run out of oil within 40 years. For example the 1975 International Petroleum Encyclopedia calculated, at 1975 consumption rates, that we would run out of oil completely, world wide, by 2015. I filled up my Polo yesterday and it's 2018, so another doomsday prediction debunked.

Personally I'm holding out for my Mr Fusion, as previewed in BTTF in 1987, which, after predicting the Cubs World Series win to within 1 year, has a better track record than the International Petroleum Encyclopedia.




Cheers
Gary

[Sydneykid]

Affordability and convenience for average person is where the full electric car will hit its first big obstacle.

I can see it now, "sorry boss I can't make it to work today, the sun didn't shine last night and there was no wind so I couldn't charge my car".

Cheers
Gary

[Idle]

I can see it now, "sorry boss I can't make it to work today, the sun didn't shine last night and there was no wind so I couldn't charge my car".

Cheers
Gary

And the straws are already in the wind (when there is a wind).

[Ozsko]

Porsche are in the middle of building a new production line strictly for electric vehicles so they might know a thing or two about the market I reckon. Those who think EV's are not going to take over from the IC motor are living in dreamland. It won't happen tomorrow and it won't happen for all markets and purposes for a long time but it is going to happen eventually. This is an interesting video of the next Porsche EV, the interesting thing is the Porsche reps comments on EV's and that they accept the inevitability of it and also when they actually started to develop EV's

[Transporter]

Porsche are in the middle of building a new production line strictly for electric vehicles so they might know a thing or two about the market I reckon. Those who think EV's are not going to take over from the IC motor are living in dreamland. It won't happen tomorrow and it won't happen for all markets and purposes for a long time but it is going to happen eventually. This is an interesting video of the next Porsche EV, the interesting thing is the Porsche reps comments on EV's and that they accept the inevitability of it and also when they actually started to develop EV's

I’ve never said it won’t happen. Only it won’t be, like we have electric cars flooding our roads anytime soon. Make no mistake, that Ic engine will still be powering our cars for many years to come. I don’t consider hybrid an electric car, as it’s not, it’s a hybrid. First hybrid that was readily available Toyota Prius hit the showroom more than 20 years ago.

Unless the battery in the EV recharges within 10-15minutes, I can’t imagine how many charging stations we would need? Considering that it takes 5 minutes to refill the fuel tank and often there are ques at the petrol stations. Can you imagine EVs spending 1hour or more to get some charge in it

As I said, today’s car is very convenient, just fill up an go. After all, electric motor in the vehicles is as old as the IC engine and it was IC engine right up to now for convenience.
The car manufacturers need to sell and if market is not buying the EVs, how long can they go without profit?
I don’t think that the hybrids or EVs made today are bread and butter models for any car manufacturer?

[Ozsko]

What everyone needs to understand is that EVERY EUROPEAN MANUFACTURER is planning a huge model introduction of EV's and China has already laid down the rules for about 20% of cars sold have to be electric from the early 20's. The impact of that will mean that it won't be a case of buying what you want but buying what is made and sold in this country. The VW dealer I spoke to today told me that there will be an electric Golf in Oz this year but I will believe that when I see it. There is a truism in this world, never believe what a car salesman tells you. As for charging, when petrol was first introduced there was no petrol stations and if you went for a drive a bloke stood on the side of the road selling petrol out of cans so things were not what we see today. I think for day to day running around in the metro area a large amount of charging will be done at home, some won't be able to do this as they live in flats and apartments but they will be in the minority. Everyone in Oz thinks that the range is the problem when 99% of them never drive outside the metro area and the mythical interstate trip will take a week to complete when most have never driven such a trip.

[Transporter]

Let’s just hope that everything goes according to plan.

Though, this article and many others suggests that the IC engine will still be in passenger cars by mid century and somehow I see it as plausible.
German spark-ignited compression-ignition research paralleling Mazda’s SPCCI

[Sydneykid]

The only reason, THE ONLY REASON that electric cars are being developed by the car manufacturers is government regulation that effectively mandates it. Sure they often disguise it as fuel efficiency and emissions improvements but the only way to achieve the mandates is via electric cars. Some governments are simply going to ban non electric cars from major cities, whilst at the same time allowing the big polluters in diesel buses and trucks, hypocrites. The vast majority of consumers don't want electric cars, they don't want to pay the additional costs, they don't want the inconvenience of waiting hours on a country trip recharging the battery. They are being forced by their governments to do something that they fundamentally don't want to do. At some point the electorate might just wake up and vote them out and then electric cars will die the same way and for the same reasons as they have in the past. On a level playing field they just can't compete.

Cheers
Gary

[Transporter]

+100
The government, all politicians and environmentalists should be first adopters, driving only and only full electric cars everywhere they travel including their personal life.

[Idle]

+100
The government, all politicians and environmentalists should be first adopters, driving only and only full electric cars everywhere they travel including their personal life.

Nothing beats having a bit of a stir now and again! - but one day all this will happen.

At 94, I don't expect to see it, tho'.