Stiff competition for the Mk7 Golf GTI - First Edition

[elephino]

A class competing with the golf?!?!

since when did the A class put on so much weight?

given that all the power figures will all be within close range of each other, i'd go the one with the best chassis and smallest engine in a fwd car. the handling implications will mean that whilst others are quibbling over which car has 4% more kilwatts, the car i described will be 3 corners ahead.

and i say fwd because i like my hatchbacks, and so far rwd in a hatch package has compromised interior room (bmw)... i dont know why i care about what whoever is sitting back there thinks about comfort, but i do...

regarding the merc a250 - i read on some car site that they reckon that if aus gets an AMG version, it'd "likely be north of $50k"...

lol. the last POS a180 avantgarde from 2009 was RRP of like $48k...

the a250, their most sporting non-amg proposition, might compete with the gti in terms of stats on paper, but do you really reckon that mercedes, who are happy to sell a little ishtbox like the previous model a class for $48k, would sell the new one for a similar price?

nah, merc arent gonna let you have a new a250 for close to gti money... time and a halve it, though, and we might be ballpark...

The talk is the A250 to be BMW 125i money (about $46k) with an AMG model above that, I would assume $55-65k.

[THE_EGG]

Sam unfortunately that was last year, latest from Honda Australia is the TypeR is no more

Honda Civic Type R is no more

Most 'sporty' thing fom Honda is the crz. Honda lost the plot basically !

Agreed, such a pity. My mum used to have an accord type R from europe a while back and that was one wicked engine (VTEC FTW). But it seems since the NSX and S2000 was discontinued and then the Prelude and Integra (although from Geneva it looks like another one might be in store within a few years), most of Honda's cars lost their sporty edge. Such a shame tbh. I used to like their position in the market. An in between of the normal Toyota's etc and then Mercedes Benz etc and also with a sporty touch. But oh well times change. VW almost lost the plot with the Mk4 GTI being very dull.

Now they are back so looking forward for the next year in motoring!

[PGS_AUS]

Interesting that you've left out what will probably be the closest competitor to the GTI in the form of the Focus ST when it arrives here in early 2013. With build quality apparently now nearly at VW-like levels and higher equipment levels including a mooted DSG it should give the Mk7 GTI a real run for its money. TBH if it had been available in the next couple of months instead of getting pushed into next year it would have figured in my current car buying equations as I've been very happy for 5 years with the current XR5 which I purchased over a MK5 GTI (I could have gone either way and been very happy but tbh TGs review pushed me over the edge and I still smile everytime I put the loud peddle down and hear that glorius warble from the motor).

[DoggieHowser]

Curious. With both merc and bimmer selling at R prices where does that put the S3?

[Buller_Scott]

Now they are back so looking forward for the next year in motoring!

it's gonna be a big one, for sure. there's a remote possibility that the twingo rs might be coming so that will mean abarth vs swift sport vs twingo vs vw gt up!, although the abarth fails big time in the feedback/ feel department

then there's the clio 5 door dsg, which im guessing will start to attract some attention from the traditional golf gti crowd.

the citroen ds4 looks rad, and the ds5 is one of the prettiest hatchbacks i've seen in quite a while.

and if elephino's right and they're happy to sell a250 mercs for sub-$50k, that'll be VERY interesting.

no doubt the toyobaru br-86 will sell like hotcakes but it'd be nice to think that other players will try to at least provide that sort of driving satisfaction in a hatchback layout, just like the pug gti's and up-till-now clios etc.

cars dont need lots of power to be "drivers' cars" - in terms of spirited runs on a twisty road, power isnt really relevant imo - it's about driver involvement, feel, feedback, no gimmicks like forward facing cameras and heated sat nav/ wireless cappucino, good turn in with entertaining lift off oversteer, good grip, and most importantly the smile on your face because you feel like you're actually driving, and not removed/ insulated from the driving experience.

as for which car will lend itself as a threat to the mk7 gti - that depends. price is easy, and so are stats on paper, not to mention all those options that enable you to do everything from your car, like have conference calls, surf facetube, and receive a thai hooker massage whilst taking a dump in your auto self cleaning sports toilet bucket seats...

if that's all that VW requires of themselves in producing the mk7, then no doubt there will be lots and lots of competition, with slightly nicer alloys, slightly bigger satnav screens, and slightly cleaner auto sports toilets.

not saying that this is a bad thing, but manufacturer performance divisions catering to "what people want" as opposed to "what drivers want", is the reason why the clio 3 RS just became a collector's item.

[THE_EGG]

it's gonna be a big one, for sure. there's a remote possibility that the twingo rs might be coming so that will mean abarth vs swift sport vs twingo vs vw gt up!, although the abarth fails big time in the feedback/ feel department

then there's the clio 5 door dsg, which im guessing will start to attract some attention from the traditional golf gti crowd.

the citroen ds4 looks rad, and the ds5 is one of the prettiest hatchbacks i've seen in quite a while.

and if elephino's right and they're happy to sell a250 mercs for sub-$50k, that'll be VERY interesting.

no doubt the toyobaru br-86 will sell like hotcakes but it'd be nice to think that other players will try to at least provide that sort of driving satisfaction in a hatchback layout, just like the pug gti's and up-till-now clios etc.

cars dont need lots of power to be "drivers' cars" - in terms of spirited runs on a twisty road, power isnt really relevant imo - it's about driver involvement, feel, feedback, no gimmicks like forward facing cameras and heated sat nav/ wireless cappucino, good turn in with entertaining lift off oversteer, good grip, and most importantly the smile on your face because you feel like you're actually driving, and not removed/ insulated from the driving experience.

as for which car will lend itself as a threat to the mk7 gti - that depends. price is easy, and so are stats on paper, not to mention all those options that enable you to do everything from your car, like have conference calls, surf facetube, and receive a thai hooker massage whilst taking a dump in your auto self cleaning sports toilet bucket seats...

if that's all that VW requires of themselves in producing the mk7, then no doubt there will be lots and lots of competition, with slightly nicer alloys, slightly bigger satnav screens, and slightly cleaner auto sports toilets.

not saying that this is a bad thing, but manufacturer performance divisions catering to "what people want" as opposed to "what drivers want", is the reason why the clio 3 RS just became a collector's item.

Agreed the feel is most important to me as well. My mum's A200 (2009) is loaded with features and has an alright motor. But the crappy CVT gearbox along with no feel in the steering and extremely hard suspension (yes mum got the option for sport suspension), really puts me off if I ever have to borrow her car. It is not satisfying at all to drive. Yeh the options are great and all that but if it drives like crap then I ain't looking at it at all. Will be looking for for the 4C and the new Citroen's and GTI.

[DoggieHowser]

Looks like VW isn't taking all this sitting down.





290hp R

375hp RS with the internals for RS3!


The top model is the R-charged two-liter unit will be upgraded in terms of performance of 270 to 290 hp. On the four-wheel drive and DSG control box setup in just 5.5 seconds from zero to 100 km / h. For an additional boost, the throttled speed of 250 to 270 km / h is increased. Sales will probably begin in late 2013.

Audi engine with 375 hp in the Golf RS

For 2014, VW plans to build first Golf RS. In this works, the turbocharged 2.5-liter five-cylinder engine from the Audi TT RS, providing close to 375 hp. Also on board is an automatic DSG gearbox with seven speeds, four-wheel drive, an improved damper adjustment and polished 19-inch wheels.

[WhiteJames]

Based on Audi's power outputs ... looks like GTI power will stay around 200-220hp with most gain coming from LSD and lower weight ... perhaps 80kg as a mechanical LSD adds weight ... lesser models most likely to have greater reductions in weight.

The Ford Focus with addition of Cruise Control, Driver's Left Footrest, Great Safety Tech, Good Level of Std kit and DSG for around 40K could be a real threat to the Golf GTI. Ford no doubt will be heavier, so fuel economy may not be as good as the Volkswagen or BMW. The new Focus RS models do have polarising looks.

Biggest issue with Volkswagen Golf GTI is lack of availability. It great for Volkswagen and customers that so many individual options. Cuts down on level of stock that Volkswagen has to hold, therefore reduces their holding costs. On the other hand, waiting 6-9 mhts for a special build/optioned Volkswagen will be a major problem for VW when shopping for other hot hatches that are in stock.

Imo Volkswagen really does need to offer different levels of kit ... Basic, Sports, Luxury and Sports/Luxury.

Sports could have lightweight Motorsport Wheels, Bi-Xenons, LSD, Stiffer Driver Gear Sports Eibach Springs to cater for those seeking that bit more driver connection. Luxury could focus on Leather, Sunroof, SatNav, Premium Audio, Electric Seats. Sport/Luxury would have both. This may reduce the waiting time with Trans and Colour being the only real determining purchase factor with plenty of stock available. Look at what has happened with the Polo GTI.

Edit: Looks like 18" wheels will be standard on the Mark 7 GTI ... one less option to pay for.

Cheers
WJ

[Buller_Scott]

Imo Volkswagen really does need to offer different levels of kit ... Basic, Sports, Luxury and Sports/Luxury.

Sports could have lightweight Motorsport Wheels, Bi-Xenons, LSD, Stiffer Driver Gear Sports Eibach Springs to cater for those seeking that bit more driver connection. Luxury could focus on Leather, Sunroof, SatNav, Premium Audio, Electric Seats. Sport/Luxury would have both. This may reduce the waiting time with Trans and Colour being the only real determining purchase factor with plenty of stock available. Look at what has happened with the Polo GTI.

Cheers
WJ

just like what they do with skoda in the uk, isnt it? comfort pack, drivers pack, sports pack, etc etc. i might not know the intricacies of the costs involved with manufacturing and delivery, but i always thought that this was a good model.

and an R wagon would be awesome for the snow - knowing DSG issues, it'd have to be manual and awd for me.

whether or not they produce a 290kw golf RS, im not sure - to me, that car makes no sense whatsoever (especially on the tight twisties that i like to drive for fun), but that being said, the top-of-the-range performance golf will always sell well - look how many R's they are selling (and how many people are willing to wait 27 months for them).

VW really just need to do one thing, and do it right - the next clio is going to be 5 door dsg only. all these other cars are coming along.... VW will make an absolute KILLING if they can just put that driver feel and involvement, that naughtiness and emotion, back into the gti:
- must have a manual option.
- instead of fcking coffee machines and satellite conference call capability, offer options that appeal to drivers, such as lighter wheels, LSD (if not standard), better brake pads etc - as whitejames mentioned above.
- they need to get rid of that vag understeer. if they can produce a car that has proper, entertaining lift off oversteer, like a clio or a suzuki swift sport, then they'll have it made.
- class leading chassis balance - this wont likely matter - when talking "performance" models, who really cares about drivers these days, when the cars are going to be purchased by far more grocery-getters?
- feel, feedback. nimble. fun to drive.

if they could just do this, they might be able to fend off the seemingly inevitable departure of alot of existing customers from the VW brand, to other brands such as opel, merc (a250), renault (with the new clio aimed squarely at the golf gti dsg market), citroen ds4, etc etc...

[Ryan_R]

As long as missing accessories/options are easily retrofittable I'm not too fussed.

[alebonau]

suprised the alfa giulietta doesnt get a mention as another option. interesting re clio is golf competition. I would have thought megane would be more it ? clio competion would be polo surely ? otherwise the peugeot gti is probably golf gti competition as well ?

I for one love the dsg on the gti, am really pleased to see dsg like DCT, and EGS being introduced by alfa and citroen. be good to see same introduced by other makers as well.

competion is a good thing. gives us choice. and also gives vw reason to to continue driving improvements.

ps rs or R wagon. oh yeah. think be a great idea

[Finance_Analyst]

suprised the alfa giulietta doesnt get a mention as another option. interesting re clio is golf competition. I would have thought megane would be more it ? clio competion would be polo surely ? otherwise the peugeot gti is probably golf gti competition as well ?

I for one love the dsg on the gti, am really pleased to see dsg like DCT, and EGS being introduced by alfa and citroen. be good to see same introduced by other makers as well.

competion is a good thing. gives us choice. and also gives vw reason to to continue driving improvements.

ps rs or R wagon. oh yeah. think be a great idea

alfa? The most unreliable car out there?? No thanks. And they hardly rate as drivers cars anyway - the giulietta is not too far removed from the 147 GTA i drove once, which hard a chassis like jelly

[alebonau]

alfa? The most unreliable car out there?? No thanks. And they hardly rate as drivers cars anyway - the giulietta is not too far removed from the 147 GTA i drove once, which hard a chassis like jelly

Unreliable... What like Vw that rates in the bottom 5 of car makers in reliability

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/03/17/jd-powers-2011-vehicle-dependability-study-names-lincoln-best-b/

Or the gti that specifically rates as a mediocre for reliability ?

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/03/17/jd-powers-2011-vehicle-dependability-study-names-lincoln-best-b/

I think your preconceptions getting better of you

I disagree with you re drivers cars to, the alfa actually are pretty decent, I wouldn't be so quick to disregard.

Where vws engines were their strength, in overall package i think other makers are creeping up.

[hooba]

Unreliable... What like Vw that rates in the bottom 5 of car makers in reliability
JD Power's 2011 Vehicle Dependability Study names Lincoln best brand, Toyota wins most segments

Or the gti that specifically rates as a mediocre for reliability ?
JD Power's 2011 Vehicle Dependability Study names Lincoln best brand, Toyota wins most segments

I think your preconceptions getting better of you

I disagree with you re drivers cars to, the alfa actually are pretty decent, I wouldn't be so quick to disregard.

Where vws engines were their strength, in overall package i think other makers are creeping up.

+1

IMHO, VW is matching the Italians and French on reliability.

[alebonau]

so doesnt look like any gti by march next year when the lease on my mk6 gti runs out. have been checking out some of the competition. the citroen ds4 am sorry to say doesnt quite hit the spot for me. its a lovely thing in styling and finish, quite a step up from the golf in charecter. but its top spec engine has no dsg type transmission alternative. and the lower spec engine is bit too slow and not convinced with the EGS (automated manual gear box thing) citroen sells it with. it is also a bit of a feel of a little mpv/suv inside/outside as well which I suppose was going to happen as its a bit of a crossover.

the alfa guilietta is real suprise, again here like the citroen the top spec QV with its 1750 turbo petrol doesnt come with the 6 speed twin clutch transmission, but checking out in the 1.4 petrol turbo and with the new TCT dry twin clutch 6 speed transmission it has and with QV sports pack its really a lovely car. a ton more charecter beautifull styling in and out and quite decent stright line performance and handling.

Also I see in the press the merc has an amg version of the a250 on the track...though no doubt that will be an extremely pricey exercise as with anything amg.