Avoid taking your golf to the dealer for warranty work.

[ozmale]

We were never notified when the cameras were installed. But that was the NSW Government and they are exempt from laws and Workcover regulations.

As a result of this investigation for my A/C I looked into cam etc a lot.

I the case you mention there is no legal requirement for the company to warn about the cameras, its usually a requirement of the union that covers the industry (often part of the EBA). there is nothing wrong with monitoring an employee going about his daily work but it becomes a problem if the employee meets his wife for lunch and have a kiss and cuddle watching porn on a mobile devise and its captured and someone at the company office watches it. Then the company is in trouble, I am told most companies ask the employee before watching any videos. P.S. just because you are not in a union does not mean there is no union covering it. ALL industries are covered by a union.

Another example. If you have security cameras in your home and you don't have to tell anyone about them, this is why you should. If you have a babysitter (under 16) and while in your home and you are out they jerk off on the lounge and you check that all is good while you are out and you see them jerking off you are instantly guilty of kiddie porn.

When it comes to cams etc its best to tell but not absolutely necessary. In my case the end justified the means. It is stupid in this age to assume you are not being watched all the time.

[65F100]

Absolutely ridiculous that you had to go to these lengths to get it repaired. If they are ARC licensed they should have competent people working there that should have given better advise.

Hopefully vehicle is not going back to same dealer for repairs!

[Flipper Dog]

There has been a solution to my problem.
As a result of a lot of evidence collected by myself (dash cam as well), resulting in the involvement of the EPA and VW Australia. I have agreed for my car to be taken for a few days for a full investigation of my Air conditioning. The leak will be found and repaired, I am to receive a full refund of my $157 plus some other stuff.

I am pleased that you finally have been able to seek a solution to this issue, thanks for sharing your adventure with us.

Did you receive any assistance from the dealer principle or other senior management from the dealership or did VW Australia intervene ?
Reason I ask is that any business can have those employees but if there is a problem with customer service and is addressed higher up to be fixed than I am supportive of that. But if the whole business supports poor customer service and is defensive if you expose any issues than they don't deserve any patronage.

[ozmale]

I am pleased that you finally have been able to seek a solution to this issue, thanks for sharing your adventure with us.

Did you receive any assistance from the dealer principle or other senior management from the dealership or did VW Australia intervene ?
Reason I ask is that any business can have those employees but if there is a problem with customer service and is addressed higher up to be fixed than I am supportive of that. But if the whole business supports poor customer service and is defensive if you expose any issues than they don't deserve any patronage.

No assistance came from dealer, dealer caused and supported on several occasions that I should have paid and that there was no leak. VW customer service said they were bound by the dealer. VW Australia customer service high ups were the movers. I have no idea why VW Australia would be allowing a franchised dealer to dictate national customer Service practices. Can you imagine Harvey Norman allowing a single shop damaging the brand.

Some are making a joke of this but the leaking of A/C gas into the atmosphere is a big deal and when the right people were informed strong action was taken. Too many people think that just because a company says something it must be right or ok, its not. Look at the banking Royal Commission.

[mgrobins]

I'm pleased you have an outcome on the way - but not that you had to invest such a huge amount of time and emotional energy into this. This element is what is not currently being captured - so read my points below and if you feel there is some correlation you can apply I would begin pressuring VW Australia for recompense granted that they have acted negligently and likely in breach of industrial laws for chemicals as well as disregard of Australian consumer laws.


I had 3 years of free servicing from Austral VW Newstead due to them ballsing up successvie services - up to and including losing my car for 3 days. Work stated as being done and me showing them that the pain on bolts had not been cracked etc. Fraud.

The service attendants are NOT the mechanics and often state situations they have no clue about - especially when you want to check if a specific check was done.

Using Consumer Statutory guarantees and the Consumer law which is very robust in Australia is the ONLY way to make these types of dealerships come to the table.

VW Australia if you have quoted them verbatim have told you that a failure by a technician to detect a fault means that there is no fault... therefore no warrantable action. Ergo, VW have an incentinve not to look for faults correctly.

I had VW throw industry standards at me over some glass problems to intimidate me. Their "independent professional" had not even checked the vehicle in the correct lighting as clearly specified in the standard. It took me 2 min while waiting for the sales manager to skim the standard, find that and smash him over the head with it and their lack of integrity. I would be examining the qualifications and standards being applied re refrigerants and the work done.

Bottom line is you can get the results you deserve and you do deserve warrantable support. YOu did bring the Government agencies into it.

In this instance I would be persuing it on the basis of statutory guarantee for merchantable quality.
A Vehicle AC is constructed to be robust and provide service for extended period. having no gas by the end of 12 months means it was either not filled adequately (thus presented at below merchantable standard) or has a fault. If VW determine there is no fault then it is not of merchantable quality as the AC system clearly does not meet the advertised standards of quality and pricing that VW express as a "premium brand".

THe additional element of this is the unconscionable conduct of VW Australia and the Dealership who must both very clearly understand that the sealed AC system should be functioning without loss of gas. This identifies an attitude of unacceptable conduct, and potentially illegal business practice in charging you for warrantable work, and not following correct procedure for hazardous materials or controlled substances (EPA side).


Be mindful you may be dealing with a combination of ignorance, and/or wilful intent to deceive. Not always easy to determine which.

I despise companies who behave like this. Telstra pulled similar crap on me and I ended up invoicing them for my wasted time and them having to pay it. This is what I believe you should pursue as this situation is substantially beyond what should have been required for an obvious issue. The leak may not have been obvious - but the need to persist and increase the level of scrutiny should have been their first course of action.... not charging you and telling you to piss off.

If you take this path be forward with your issue of time, emotional distress at the interactions and emotional distress/concern for safety of you and family in the vehicle if there was gas venting internally (you are not an expert therefore you are able to reasonably make this assertion even if the system could not technically do so).

If you were in Brisbane I'd go with you just to advocate and put them in their place.

[mgrobins]

When you get this dealt with update your sig with "working a/c" given that it's optional according to VW!

As an aside I have recently been in contact with the dealership I mentioned and they identified they are a pilot dealership for a company wide program to alter the culture and manner of customer interactions. Basis being a recognition that customer expectation of transparency, honesty and direct answers rather than BS sales etc is now mainstream. Social media can destroy dealerships who can't get their **** together and VW identified that it's practices were sub-optimal. I can only hope that the Service side reflects this program as they often over-book, over-charge and have a lack of attention to detail. Good staff (mechanics) can only do so much in a given time and high pressure work is not sustainable. That's assuming good mechanics.... I will see how I go with them but have already made it clear that I rank them as on par with banks and Telstra for trustworthiness and value.

[ozmale]

Thanks heaps for all your input Mgrobins, so well stated and written and I will be using some of your points tomorrow when the car goes to the dealer to have the "non" leak fully investigated.

I never understood why dealers have this planned "piss off the customer" attitude. It cost no more to be transparent and honest. The local mechanic I deal with has always been transparent. You are always allowed in the workshop to see how your car is progressing. He tells me banning a customer for safety reasons (used by most) is actually BS. Says the insurance covers everything and has never has a problem.

[Ozsko]

All dealerships have an inbuilt communication problem and it is not until you work in the environment that you can even begin to understand why it happens. First off they are operating the same way as they have operated since at least the 1950's and a lot has changed since then. My son who works in a very big dealer has been trying to change the way the service department is structured with no success. When I was working as a manager if a problem occurred and clearly needed resolving or a technician had stuffed up the tech was introduced to the customer and asked to explain. Doing that lifted their game but that was only one problem of many.

Scenario 1:

The customer relates the problem to a mostly untrained service advisor, he is paid to smile and take your money. The customer may or may not be able to explain the problem fully so an untrained person is then going to try and write that down on the Repair Order (RO) and then hopefully a technician is going to try and fix what two people have been unable to explain to each other. The technician then gets the RO looks at the car and wonders what the hell he is supposed to do about it, he asks the service advisor who can give no other explanation so maybe the tech gets lucky and finds the problem and maybe he doesn't. If the problem does not get fixed then is the owner entitled to get stuck into the the service advisor? I say he is because what should have happened is a tech should have spoken to the customer when he or she and the service advisor could not work out the problem in terms that would hopefully fix it.

That is only one scenario of a thousand I can think of. The breakdown happens daily in every dealership, the SA writes down what he thinks went wrong or what he thinks the customer needs and the technician either does not have the correct information or in some cases does not fix it because he can't and then sometimes causes more issues due to his stupidity. Poor skill levels at every level, advisor, manager and tech are rampant in the industry and independent technicians are no better and in some cases far worse. I make that emphatic statement having owned my own workshop and becoming sick and tired of justifying poor work practises to owners. Finding competent reliable technicians is a very hard thing to do so I got out. The single advantage a small workshop has is that generally the person who works on the car is the person who speaks to the owner of the car so he gets the story directly and in a lot of cases he knows what questions to ask which is a huge advantage.

Then another issue is when the car gets picked up, the customer starts asking questions, it is often after work shop knock off time and all the techs have gone home so the SA has no one to ask and cannot answer those questions so the customer feels like he is being fobbed off when it is a case of no one to help the SA answer the customer's queries. The whole thing comes down to inefficient management stuck in the dark ages and the manufacturers not forcing change within the industry.

This post could be ten pages long but I think you might have some idea of the problems the lack of good clear communication creates. The problems also goes the other way, the tech explains something or writes it down for the service advisor to tell the customer and for whatever reason that message does not get through and so it goes on and on.

[ozmale]

All dealerships have an inbuilt communication problem and it is not until you work in the environment that you can even begin to understand why it happens. First off they are operating the same way as they have operated since at least the 1950's and a lot has changed since then. My son who works in a very big dealer has been trying to change the way the service department is structured with no success. When I was working as a manager if a problem occurred and clearly needed resolving or a technician had stuffed up the tech was introduced to the customer and asked to explain. Doing that lifted their game but that was only one problem of many.

Scenario 1:

The customer relates the problem to a mostly untrained service advisor, he is paid to smile and take your money. The customer may or may not be able to explain the problem fully so an untrained person is then going to try and write that down on the Repair Order (RO) and then hopefully a technician is going to try and fix what two people have been unable to explain to each other. The technician then gets the RO looks at the car and wonders what the hell he is supposed to do about it, he asks the service advisor who can give no other explanation so maybe the tech gets lucky and finds the problem and maybe he doesn't. If the problem does not get fixed then is the owner entitled to get stuck into the the service advisor? I say he is because what should have happened is a tech should have spoken to the customer when he or she and the service advisor could not work out the problem in terms that would hopefully fix it.

That is only one scenario of a thousand I can think of. The breakdown happens daily in every dealership, the SA writes down what he thinks went wrong or what he thinks the customer needs and the technician either does not have the correct information or in some cases does not fix it because he can't and then sometimes causes more issues due to his stupidity. Poor skill levels at every level, advisor, manager and tech are rampant in the industry and independent technicians are no better and in some cases far worse. I make that emphatic statement having owned my own workshop and becoming sick and tired of justifying poor work practises to owners. Finding competent reliable technicians is a very hard thing to do so I got out. The single advantage a small workshop has is that generally the person who works on the car is the person who speaks to the owner of the car so he gets the story directly and in a lot of cases he knows what questions to ask which is a huge advantage.

Then another issue is when the car gets picked up, the customer starts asking questions, it is often after work shop knock off time and all the techs have gone home so the SA has no one to ask and cannot answer those questions so the customer feels like he is being fobbed off when it is a case of no one to help the SA answer the customer's queries. The whole thing comes down to inefficient management stuck in the dark ages and the manufacturers not forcing change within the industry.

This post could be ten pages long but I think you might have some idea of the problems the lack of good clear communication creates. The problems also goes the other way, the tech explains something or writes it down for the service advisor to tell the customer and for whatever reason that message does not get through and so it goes on and on.

"The single advantage a small workshop has is that generally the person who works on the car is the person who speaks to the owner of the car so he gets the story directly and in a lot of cases he knows what questions to ask which is a huge advantage."

Probably the truest and best set of words written in this whole thread.

The girl I left the car with today had been briefed a bit but was all of 12 years old. She ran off to the manager but he didn't want to speak to me. i am assuming i will get my car back with the A/C leak found and fixed but no wheels on the car.

[Tuan]

This has been a good read ... to be continued

[willsy01]

i am assuming i will get my car back with the A/C leak found and fixed but no wheels on the car.

If you do, just drive it around for a few days and see if they come back.

[gregozedobe]

[B]but no wheels on the car.

That's OK, they'll just tell you that they couldn't find any problem so there isn't one ......

[Tuan]

If you do, just drive it around for a few days and see if they come back.

Come on ... he can hardly leave the dealership without wheels ...

[ozmale]

That's OK, they'll just tell you that they couldn't find any problem so there isn't one ......

Well i got the car back and my refund is in the post. And, yes that is exactly what they said. "We cant find any problem, so there isn't one.

I couldn't resist so i asked again. "Where did all the gas go?" and again got no answer.

you know if you do any customer service course the first thing they teach you is to listen to the customer. They never do that at car dealers.

[Ozsko]

Listening is one thing but as I pointed out above it is amazing the number of customers who cause the initial problem by being unable to clearly explain the problem so all is not what it might seem. What is normally done in cases like this AC issue is if the leak is not apparent the system is recharged, a dye added and the customer asked to drive the car and report back if the problem occurs again. There is never any discussion beyond that because there has been no definite fix. You jest of course when you describe the girl as 12 years of age.