Tyre Noise - Not Wheel Bearing Noise

[kaanage]

Elec eng (working in IT, though) but with a major interest in mech eng, especially with regard to racing vehicles (cars, motorcycles, bicycles).

Get a copy of Carroll Smith's "Engineer to Win" if you're also into that stuff - that's where the bulk of my metallurgical knowledge comes from.

[Frankenstrat]

I have Materials For The Engineering Technician by RA Higgins, and a hot line to a metallurgist who also has a small foundry.

Getting right back on topic, I've been advised (by Tyrepower) that the Pirelli P7s are at the low-end of the Pirelli range, prone to being noisy (I already knew that) and that I could replace them all or rotate them across the car to wear the feathering down. Can't be bothered with option 2, it's getting ludicrously noisy in the cabin now. Their recommendation is Toyo 205/55/R16, not sure which model though, approx $175 each.

[Frankenstrat]

Their recommendation is Toyo 205/55/R16, not sure which model though, approx $175 each.

Toyo TEO Plus 205/55/R16 91V. First thing I noticed, the steering seemed lighter, second, they are quiet! Whoever suggested four pages ago that it was the tyres making the noise was right on the money.

[Steveo]

Good to hear and after my experience I am not surprised.

Is there anyone who has had this problem. That is: replaced tyres with a different brand - with a big drop in noise, only to have it reappear 20,000km later?

With my last car I went from Bridgestones to Pirellis and had a big improvement, but did not run up enough kms on the new tyres to be convinced swapping brands would fix it. However our other family car is a Dualis with Bridgestones and it is much quieter than my Golf with Bridgestones... even though it is past 30,000km. I know they are vastly different tyres and cars but I don't want to pay out $1k only to have it come back anyway because it is a "Golf" or "Honda" thing.

[Ozram]

Wheel alignment front and rear every 6 months. Rotate tyre front to back every 6 months 10,000km. This is the only way you'll stop the saw toothing on the edges of the tyres, and therefore the noise.

[Frankenstrat]

Unless the tyres are directional, you can rotate R/r to L/f, L/f to L/r, L/r to R/f, R/f to R/r. I was going to suggest something similar to this but Bridgestone beat me to it. Tyre rotation

If you did this every 10,000km you would definitely lessen the saw-toothing effect.

[EDIT] I see Bridgestone recommend rotation every 5,000-8,000km [/EDIT]

[Rekkie]

Hi,

Just put on a set of P7's @ 60k. The left rear tyre had a lot of wear on the inside 2 inches and as mentioned above it sounded like a helicopter chasing me for the last 5k.

When they did the alligment today the steering was then out by about 5 deg and pulling to the left, i had to take it back to them and they took about 2 hours to ge it better but still not 100% as the steering is still slightly to the left. He mentioned he may have to recalobrate the machine as it should be ok and to bring it back tomorrow. The first alignment that stuffed the steering postion was only done on the front, the second alignment was mainly done on the back.

I am confused as to how the excessive wear is only on the 2 inches of the left rear tyre and the others are fine, i assume the rear allignment must have been way out but the report the machine gave back was in spec.

[Richo64]

I had the same problem with my GTI. Had an awful noise & vibration at low speed (around 40km/hr) from 20000km onwards, which progressively got worse. Wasn't improved by having a wheel balance & alignment performed. Had Bridgestone RE 050 tyres. Changed the tryes today to Michelin PS3... noise & vibration gone & it feels like a new car.
I wonder if part of the problem with the Brigdestones is that this one is a undirectionl tyre, which seems to make the "saw toothing" become progressively worse with wear.

[Steveo]

Richo64 - will be interested to see how they go after a few thousand kms because I have the same issue as you - GTI and Bridgestones. How much by the way?

Toss-up between these and the Primacy HP. They get a fairly good reception on Tirerack.com reviews. The other one which doesn't appear available for the GTI is the Pilot Super Sport, which comes up top of the pile in the same reviews (quiet and grippy)

Has anyone been able to get the Pilot Super Sport in Australia (225/45/17)

[rosslm]

Confirmation of the above I did the same change from Bridgestone RE050's to Michelin PS3's the Michelins are very quiet, the tyre dealer recommended the Michelin's and he said he was aware of complaints about the noise generated from the RE050's it was particularly noticeable coasting to a stop at traffic lights on smooth bitumen.

[nat225]

Richo64 - will be interested to see how they go after a few thousand kms because I have the same issue as you - GTI and Bridgestones. How much by the way?

Toss-up between these and the Primacy HP. They get a fairly good reception on Tirerack.com reviews. The other one which doesn't appear available for the GTI is the Pilot Super Sport, which comes up top of the pile in the same reviews (quiet and grippy)

Has anyone been able to get the Pilot Super Sport in Australia (225/45/17)

according to the official Michelin Australia 2012 price list, the PSS is not available in 225 45 17. 225 40 18 is not available either. It is only available in 235 35 19 for the Golf, rrp $681 each.

the Primacy HP would be a lot more comfortable and quieter tyre than the PSS. and it lasts a long time too! i have these on my other car, 25,000km traveled and there are still 5-6mm of tread remaining (approx 50,000km reported on the new Accord Euro). it's also OEM on the Toyota GTS 86 which they call Prius tyres in Japan.

[Steveo]

Thanks nat225

Interesting about that price. The PSS is listed as $177 on Tirerack

Michelin Pilot Super Sport

User reviews on Tirerack suggest the PSS is quieter than the Primacy HP

[wai]

I have just been through this. My Caddy Maxi Life has done just 15,000 km and the rear tyres are doing this. The dealer says it is scalloping and is not their responsibility. Oh, they did suggest that I have the "toe in" corrected...on a beam axle!

Basically, the non-drive tyres are prone to this where the tyres are asymmetrical and tyre pressures are at the lower end of the pressure range. This is caused because the two halves of the tread have different rolling resistance (not friction) because of the different tread blocking. With low tyre pressures, this sees the carcass plies on one side dragging relative to the other side and this has the effect of changing the toe in of the wheel.

The only way around this is to replace the tyres with non-asymmetrical tyres so that it will roll true and not have one side dragging relative to the other. It is expensive to have to replace tyres after just 15,000 km (in my case).

[Steveo]

I have just been through this. My Caddy Maxi Life has done just 15,000 km and the rear tyres are doing this. The dealer says it is scalloping and is not their responsibility. Oh, they did suggest that I have the "toe in" corrected...on a beam axle!

Basically, the non-drive tyres are prone to this where the tyres are asymmetrical and tyre pressures are at the lower end of the pressure range. This is caused because the two halves of the tread have different rolling resistance (not friction) because of the different tread blocking. With low tyre pressures, this sees the carcass plies on one side dragging relative to the other side and this has the effect of changing the toe in of the wheel.

The only way around this is to replace the tyres with non-asymmetrical tyres so that it will roll true and not have one side dragging relative to the other. It is expensive to have to replace tyres after just 15,000 km (in my case).

I've had non-asymmetrical tyres develop the roar from the blocks feathering (or scalloping), so I think there is more to it than that. However what you are saying could still be the case with standard tyres.

I am going to have to bite the bullet and and I think I will line up for Michelin PS3s. The noise from my current tyres is just too annoying even though they still have a lot of tread.

[Steveo]

Got the PS3's yesterday - and the noise level difference is marked. Suddenly I can hear the engine and turbo burble again - great. (Now I'll probably start hearing other things and getting worried.)

Hopefully they will stay this way - will get them checked - balanced and maybe another wheel alignment in 5000kms.

I just have to wait for the initial sheen to wear off. At the first set of lights I managed to spin the tyres with a normal take-off. (At least I hope this is caused by the initial residue and I will get better traction soon)