Wheel upgrade....your advice please.

[OYE]

My golf 90TSI comes with 15" alloys and 195/65/r15 tyres, can i upgrade them to 17' alloys and 225/45/r17 tyres? any effects (positive or negative) on ride quality and fuel consumption? Glad to be advised!

[kaanage]

Grip will be improved on smooth surfaces.

Fuel economy and ride will almost certainly suffer and tyre replacement costs will go through the roof.

If the 17" wheel/tyre combination is much heavier than the OE (almost guaranteed unless you are VERY careful with your wheel selection), then acceleration, braking and turning response will be slower due to the increase rotational inertia and grip on bumpy surfaces may be reduced plus ride will further degrade.

[Diesel_vert]

My golf 90TSI comes with 15" alloys and 195/65/r15 tyres, can i upgrade them to 17' alloys and 225/45/r17 tyres? any effects (positive or negative) on ride quality and fuel consumption? Glad to be advised!

Well, in terms of ride quality and fuel consumption, the effect of bigger wheels and tyres is almost always negative.

Lower profile tyres means less compliance in the sidewall, and wider tyres can increase fuel consumption.

Bigger wheels and tyres are also heavier, meaning an increase in unsprung weight - unless you buy very light and very expensive wheels. This effects both ride quality (suspension has more work to do) and fuel consumption (more mass to move).

... and tyre replacement costs will go through the roof.

Ah, also a good point.

[Captain Courteous]

Check out this thread:

mk6-77tsi-17-wheel-problem-help

It was Dave's comments re ride quality in the end that kinda put me off changing my rims:

Capt.: Significant change in the ride going from the 15" to 17" wheel, I would say the car definately rode better (more smoothly) on the 15's but felt less planted and definately didn't perform as well but i think this is more to do with the width change from 6 to 7.5. I'm glad i didn't go to 18s as I think this would make the ride too harsh on my suspension (non-sport) and i didn't want to have to play with camber if the wheels were 18x8's.

[brad]

+1 to what kaanage said. Try & keep your ET between 45-52 or you'll get too much poke.

Maybe go for the happy medium of 16" rims?
Look through eBay & the various VW forums for people that are selling 16" rim/tyres that are unmarked & almost new.

I have 16x7.5 ET51 Audi rims with 225/55x16 Michelins (they made the speedo deadly accurate) - they cost me $400 off eBay + $10 for badges & $10 for hub-centric rings (late Audis have bigger hubs than VW/Skoda). When they are worn out I'll buy something different off eBay or a forum. This is the 3rd set of rims I've had in 95,000km.

[OYE]

Grip will be improved on smooth surfaces.

Fuel economy and ride will almost certainly suffer and tyre replacement costs will go through the roof.

If the 17" wheel/tyre combination is much heavier than the OE (almost guaranteed unless you are VERY careful with your wheel selection), then acceleration, braking and turning response will be slower due to the increase rotational inertia and grip on bumpy surfaces may be reduced plus ride will further degrade.

Thanks kaanage, it's clear to me now.

---------- Post added at 01:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:20 PM ----------

Well, in terms of ride quality and fuel consumption, the effect of bigger wheels and tyres is almost always negative.

Lower profile tyres means less compliance in the sidewall, and wider tyres can increase fuel consumption.

Bigger wheels and tyres are also heavier, meaning an increase in unsprung weight - unless you buy very light and very expensive wheels. This effects both ride quality (suspension has more work to do) and fuel consumption (more mass to move).



Ah, also a good point.

You definitely nailed it Diesel_vert; ride quality and fuel economy are two things i can't trade for anything. Thanks a lot.

---------- Post added at 01:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:26 PM ----------

Check out this thread:

mk6-77tsi-17-wheel-problem-help

It was Dave's comments re ride quality in the end that kinda put me off changing my rims:

I agree with you Captain!

---------- Post added at 01:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:37 PM ----------

+1 to what kaanage said. Try & keep your ET between 45-52 or you'll get too much poke.

Maybe go for the happy medium of 16" rims?
Look through eBay & the various VW forums for people that are selling 16" rim/tyres that are unmarked & almost new.

I have 16x7.5 ET51 Audi rims with 225/55x16 Michelins (they made the speedo deadly accurate) - they cost me $400 off eBay + $10 for badges & $10 for hub-centric rings (late Audis have bigger hubs than VW/Skoda). When they are worn out I'll buy something different off eBay or a forum. This is the 3rd set of rims I've had in 95,000km.

Thanks Brad, but don't you think 16" still means more weight than what i currently have?

[brad]

Thanks Brad, but don't you think 16" still means more weight than what i currently have?

proabably if you go genuine VW OEM. Mine are a porky 20kg and I know if I spent some reasonable money ($2k tops) I could knock 5kg off that easily.

Maybe you should weigh your current rim/tyre combo as a baseline & compare with the bigger sizes?

If you look at the (limited) range on tirerack, 17x7.5 Enkei come in at 6.9kg but the lightest 15" rim they have is 7.7kg & the lightest 16" Sparco is 7.4kg. Of course if you buy based on looks & price then you might be looking at double those weights.

Buy a good lightweight rim & a lightweight tyre (there's about 1kg variation in a given size) and it will be win-win all the way.

[OYE]

proabably if you go genuine VW OEM. Mine are a porky 20kg and I know if I spent some reasonable money ($2k tops) I could knock 5kg off that easily.

Maybe you should weigh your current rim/tyre combo as a baseline & compare with the bigger sizes?

If you look at the (limited) range on tirerack, 17x7.5 Enkei come in at 6.9kg but the lightest 15" rim they have is 7.7kg & the lightest 16" Sparco is 7.4kg. Of course if you buy based on looks & price then you might be looking at double those weights.

Buy a good lightweight rim & a lightweight tyre (there's about 1kg variation in a given size) and it will be win-win all the way.

This is very interesting Brad, i used to think bigger rims always means more weight, but now i know better. I'll give VW OEM a serious consideration then. Thanks a lot.

[brad]

No, I meant genuine VW OEM is usually a bit heavy. They have to make them to a price & also be strong(ish) therefore they are usually a bit heavy.

[walbjj]

honestly, the weight difference going from a 15" to a 17" oem rim would be about 2-3 kg a tyre/rim, thats about 10-15kg total. which is a load of shopping, which is buggerall. u could even out the "fuel consumption" by driving more efficiently, inflating ur tyres, etc.
ride will become a little harsher, but seriously, how cushy do u want it?
i went from the 17" denvers to a 19" oz racing rim. sure its a little stiffer, but ive driven performance cars (evo9, s2000, wrx, etc) for many years, so driving a "euro" is like heaven for me, the ride comfort is that much better than any of the previous japanese cars ive owned, even with the 19" rims and rubber band tyres.
ur two main concerns are fuel use and ride quality, which are understnadable, but to me thats a none issue, fuel use can be negated by driving smarter and keeping ur car serviced and running well at all times. upgrading rims and tyres will have minimal effect, maybe half a litre per 100km. ride comfort, thats also a non issue for me, if u have ever driven ****boxes and japanese cars, then the golf in itself is a great place to be sitting.
the positives of going to a bigger rim outweigh the negatives, better contact patch and better handling from more rubber.
tyre cost will be at most $200 extra every 40000km, 15" tyres are about $150-200, 17" tyres are $200-250.
think bigger picture please

[brad]

you do know that 1kg of unsprung weight is equivalent to 4kg of sprung weight?
you're aware of the effect of additional unsprung weight on suspension performance?
you know about overcoming rotational inertia & the extra power required to do so?

And the guy drives a 77tsi.

I'm not saying don't do it. I'm saying buy wisely & don't just buy the cheap reps that weigh boatloads.

I went from 17.5 to 20kg & it's noticeable in acceleration & fuel usage. My car is about 135kw/320Nm, so I think on a 77tsi it would be noticeable.

[nat225]

one thing majority of people often don't think of: going with bigger wheels especially those with tiny spokes will make your stock brakes look tiny.

if you want to go for "LOOK", do the whole thing right

[kaanage]

the positives of going to a bigger rim outweigh the negatives, better contact patch and better handling from more rubber.
tyre cost will be at most $200 extra every 40000km, 15" tyres are about $150-200, 17" tyres are $200-250.
think bigger picture please

brad is spot on in his analysis.

On my Polo, I run 195 section semi-slicks with 15" rims on the track and switch to 175 section tyres on 14" rims for road use and I can tell you that while there's no denying the extra grip of the wider, softer tyre, the narrow tyre does NOT suffer at all in terms of handling as the steering response is noticably sharper (the 14" rim is narrower so runs more offset which reduces the scrub radius). Add in the gentler breakaway characteristic which allows controlled slides (along with the more comfortable ride and lower rolling resistance which increases acceleration as well as mileage) and there is no question that the smaller combination is the better road combination.

And it keeps up with Golf R's in the hills.

17" tyres in the $200-$250 range are pretty ordinary compared to 15" tyres in the $150-$200 price range.

Narrower, taller tyres on smaller rims may not have street cred but they work just fine. For a 77TSi Golf, the 195/15" combination is just fine and a 185 tyre would be a consideration if you were really into fuel efficiency (why doesn't the Bluemotion wear 185s?)

one thing majority of people often don't think of: going with bigger wheels especially those with tiny spokes will make your stock brakes look tiny.

if you want to go for "LOOK", do the whole thing right

And the big brake kit will add even more unsprung weight and rolling inertia.

The 16x6.5" VW rims with 205/55R16 tyres is a good compromise if you want to dress up the car a bit without going OTT

[walbjj]

my main point that im trying to make is that the guy does indeed drive a 77tsi, so upgrading from 15"to 17" would make bugger all difference for what he uses the car for. all ur talk about unsprung weight, rotational inertia and extra power needed makes little effect when he is travelling from a to b.
in a performance car, for sure, everything counts at the track, but honestly, this guy will drive around, be stuck in traffic and thats it. going up sizes in wheels for him is basically for aesthetics. the plusses and minuses that come with it are miniscule.
people are thinking too deep into this. the overall financial cost is pretty insignificant, he could save more by changing insurance cover if finances are the issue

---------- Post added at 11:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:40 PM ----------

brad is spot on in his analysis.

On my Polo, I run 195 section semi-slicks with 15" rims on the track and switch to 175 section tyres on 14" rims for road use and I can tell you that while there's no denying the extra grip of the wider, softer tyre, the narrow tyre does NOT suffer at all in terms of handling as the steering response is noticably sharper (the 14" rim is narrower so runs more offset which reduces the scrub radius). Add in the gentler breakaway characteristic which allows controlled slides (along with the more comfortable ride and lower rolling resistance which increases acceleration as well as mileage) and there is no question that the smaller combination is the better road combination.

And it keeps up with Golf R's in the hills.

17" tyres in the $200-$250 range are pretty ordinary compared to 15" tyres in the $150-$200 price range.

Narrower, taller tyres on smaller rims may not have street cred but they work just fine. For a 77TSi Golf, the 195/15" combination is just fine and a 185 tyre would be a consideration if you were really into fuel efficiency (why doesn't the Bluemotion wear 185s?)



And the big brake kit will add even more unsprung weight and rolling inertia.

The 16x6.5" VW rims with 205/55R16 tyres is a good compromise if you want to dress up the car a bit without going OTT

actually, u can get name brand (bridgestone, goodyear, dunlop) high end tyres in the $200-250 range for 17". 17" tyres are usually a more popular tyre size, therefore the price difference really isnt that much when u compare it to the 15 and especially the 16" tyres.

[kaanage]

my main point that im trying to make is that the guy does indeed drive a 77tsi, so upgrading from 15"to 17" would make bugger all difference for what he uses the car for. all ur talk about unsprung weight, rotational inertia and extra power needed makes little effect when he is travelling from a to b.

Your previous post talked of the greater grip due to the increased contact patch (only significant if a softer compound is also used). So how does this affect your picture

The additional weight and rolling resistance WILL be noticable on the OP's car in both fuel consumption and probably acceleration because it doesn't have loads of excess power and the harsher ride will definitely be noticable.

Basically, it's pretty much looks vs practicality for the OP