GTI Edition 35 v GTD

[Buller_Scott]

i dont see why you should have a problem switching the order?

why not go to the dealership and say "listen, im buying one of these cars - it's either going to be a gtd or an ed35, but i need to put the wraps on just which car it will be".

if you go on a weekday, i'd speculate that you'd be able to take each car out for a couple of hours, to really get a feel for them.

just one thing: having test driven the two engines back to back in DSG guise, i have to say that the diesel engine was.... more relaxing, to drive - all the torque was available down low. the tsi engine just felt like the decibels had to rise in each gear before you could properly punt along. not sure if this is going to be a factor in your decision, but maybe keep it in mind if you do go for a back-to-back test drive.

that being said, if you've bothered to log onto an internet forum and discuss "purchasing with the heart, not the head" with complete strangers, then it's quite obvious that you've got a little dilemma going on, in which case i would suggest purchase with your heart. if your heart tells you that an ed35 is the way to go, i dont think that's any bad thing.

[hooba]

To answer the head v heart debate, the following response was posted in another car forum to a question posed by someone thinking about buying an E39 M5 but they were worried about the maintenance cost.

The only car related post I've ever bothered to save.

"You’re asking specifically about an E39 M5, and I’m going to give you a generic answer:

If you truly love motor vehicles (no matter how many wheels), sooner or later you’re going to run into a car (truck, motorcycle, whatever) that absolutely gives you wood just thinking about it. It’s for sale, it looks good and you can afford it.

At which point you forget the naysayers, the cheap bastards that won’t own a car unless it’s a virtual pre-housing bubble Fortune 500 investment, those cringing folks that are worried about the cost of a rubber hose to the point that the buffalo screamed loudly the last time they had to take a nickle out to buy a replacement part. AKA, those people who claim to be motor vehicle lovers, but won’t back it up by being willing to take the risk once in a while to face a large repair bill in exchange for the glories of downshifting into a decreasing radius curve at 20mph above the posted speed limit (much less the recommended limit on that little yellow sign just before the curve).

So you take a chance, buy a magnificent car, and every once in a while it prangs you for four figures? So what? Weigh that against all those good days, the days when life is completely in the toilet and everything is going wrong – but you don’t notice, ten miles down the road in that ‘you should have known better’ expense.

I’ve done it. One of the great fascinations of my life was to own a Triumph T150V (for the uninitiated, the original 69-74 Triumph Trident). My best friend, who was the Triumph dealer in my home town when they were new warned me against it. Gave me a complete list of everything that’s going to go wrong if I was stupid enough to buy one.

I bought one, anyway. And a bitsa, to boot. And in seven years of ownership, every one of those predicted things went wrong. And I’m still overjoyed I owned that bike, if for no other reason than adding that third cylinder to your basic 500cc British vertical twin turns it into something completely different. And, as a British motorcycle lover, my life would have been a lot poorer if I hadn’t experienced it. Even having to go thru a $2400 complete engine rebuild halfway through its life (my fault, due to a bit of arcane knowledge that I didn’t discover until after I blew the mill – never use the reserve petcock as reserve) didn’t hurt the enjoyment of that bike one bit.

That’s not the only time. I’ve always felt that the Ducati Paso was one of the most gorgeous motorcycles ever made. And halfway thru my tenure as the parts manager at Ducati Richmond, I had a chance to get a 906, and a 1 of 100 blue and white one, no less. Yeah, those old Cagiva parts gave me fits until we (myself and the shop mechanics one winter) gave it a complete go-over and replaced a lot of the bike with later-built replacement parts. The end result? The only sport bike I’ve ever been completely comfortable in riding, one of the best rides of my life, and one of the most gorgeous motorcycles I will ever see. I cried the day I had to sell it (due to my wife’s health care costs, I’m caring for an invalid).

I’m on my third “you gotta be out of your mind” vehicle right now. A 1987 Porsche 924S with 126k on the clock. Was originally looking for a first generation Miata when I stumbled across it. Always loved the front engine Porsche’s way more than the rear engined cars (fifteen years earlier almost bought a 928, got the ‘spreadsheet the repair costs’ willies and didn’t – still regret that decision). And the way it handled cut the couple of Miata’s, I’d previously driven, dead. And when the seller suggest we go back out an re-run the route I’d just driven, but a good bit faster, I was sold.

I’m doing OK. Having no service records, I immediately budgeted for the $2k timing belt, water pump, etc., etc., etc. and had it done within a week of purchase. It annually pings me to the tune of about $500-700 for a repair. Fuel pump was the latest back in April. And since my wife is no longer capable of riding pillion with me on the bikes, I thank God that I spent the money. It still gives us a Saturday like we used to have, just with four wheels instead of two.

Live. Its only money, and as long as there’s a roof over your head, food on the table, and something put aside to insure those two will be covered in the future, then live to enjoy. If you’re going to get like those on this forum who have to spreadsheet every repair and agonize over resale value, then just buy a damned Corolla and shut the ‘ef up. You’re not a car enthusiast, you’re an accountant who can only afford reliable appliances.

And, I hope you never ‘get it out of your system’. Yeah, that M5 will someday lose it’s luster (maybe – it could turn out of be a lifelong keeper, no matter what the expense). At which point, follow another dream, and damned be the cost.

Myself? I’m 61, and someday, before I die, I’m going to own a Ferrari. Nothing valuable or collectable as I can’t afford the purchase price (fortunately I’ve always like the 400i), but I’m going to have a genuine, ruinously expensive to maintenance Ferrari. And life as I see it will be better for the experience. I’ve got no kids to leave my estate to. Better I whittle it down a bit at a time supporting some good Ferrari mechanic, and have the joy of listening to the V-12 bellow down the straights."

[SilvrFoxX]

Amen...........................................

[andrew7]

Nice work Hooba

[Buller_Scott]

so which way are you leaning, andrew7?

[andrew7]

Very confused Scott- this was quoted in another forum and is what's nagging at me:

"Regarding GTI versus GTD - the GTD is more exclusive, will be cheaper to run, and will probably deliver 75% of the fun of a GTI. That said, the 25% is the juicy bit "

Good advice on your behalf too BTW- I need to go back to the dealer for another side by side drive next week. I was blindsided by the GTI as I had no intention of driving it (looking at a diesel Tiguan supposedly ) and it made quite the impression! Seemed like a diesel GTD was the in betweener then. In any case at the end of the day it will be a win-win....(2 of my workmates have GTD's and are very happy with it)

Sounds like your happy with your GTD?

[ParaBul]

My 2c:

I bought the GTD to be an economical daily driver, with the bulk of my driving being suburban commute, with the (too infrequent) occasional country run.

I needed something at short notice, so bought one that was available, and it just happened to come with DSG. If I'd had the choice at the time, I believe I would've selected manual - but I now think the DSG is a better choice for the diesel, because of the low redline. During spirited acceleration, redline comes round quite quickly, which is no big problem when you're flicking a paddle. It might be a little tiring doing this in a manual. I've also found that I lose track of which gear I'm in with the DSG - but I guess that would get better if I paid more attention.

So far, my daily commute achieves about the same economy as I get on a highway run - about 6l/100km. I believe the GTi would achieve similar on the highway, but I would expect it to use significantly more around town.

If you're a true driving enthusiast, you might be a little disappointed by the ultimate handling of the GTD. I find that it's quite enjoyable on a quick cruise, but the rear end seems to get loose very quickly if I push too hard. I suspect the GTI, with a lighter engine and lower rear suspension, would be better balanced, and work better in these circumstances.

I have another car for weekend fun, so I'm happy with the performance of my daily driver - I believe it's a good compromise of fuel economy (which was my first consideration) & performance. But I do believe it's a compromise.

[Buller_Scott]

Very confused Scott- this was quoted in another forum and is what's nagging at me:

"Regarding GTI versus GTD - the GTD is more exclusive, will be cheaper to run, and will probably deliver 75% of the fun of a GTI. That said, the 25% is the juicy bit "

Good advice on your behalf too BTW- I need to go back to the dealer for another side by side drive next week. I was blindsided by the GTI as I had no intention of driving it (looking at a diesel Tiguan supposedly ) and it made quite the impression! Seemed like a diesel GTD was the in betweener then. In any case at the end of the day it will be a win-win....(2 of my workmates have GTD's and are very happy with it)

Sounds like your happy with your GTD?

hey mate, lol - i dont actually have a GTD. my old man was in town from indonesia and we thought "yeah, let's check em out" (and yes, it was a weekday, which was awesome as no rush from the dealer, and much less pushy, in my experience).

i've got a polo tdi - when Rob_R referred to diesels that can hold their own in the twisties, mine would be one of the ones he'd be talking about (tuned, suspension etc etc).

to be honest, whilst i am a bit of a diesel fanboi, i WILL admit that you're not incorrect in saying that the GTD will be a percentage of the fun of a GTI, and as ParaBul says, the GTD CAN be thought of as somewhat a compromise.

if it's a GTI vs. a GTD, they are both a compromise of each other - the GTD has the better fuel economy, whilst some might say (including myself) that the GTI has the equally better handling. depending on what you prioritise, therefore, i'd say that they really do compliment each other, if that makes sense. if both drivers are keen, i believe that a GTD driver following a GTI driver on a twisty mountain road, will be able to keep up. as Rob_R said, and as i know from the many cruises i've been on in victorian twisties, not to take anything away from rockets like a GTI or an R, but the diesels can hold their own in the tight stuff.

as for fuel economy, yes, the GTD will have the economy advantage over a GTI but you are still more than capable of ''hypermiling'' in a GTI, too.

at the VW driver day at sandown in 2010, i drove both the GTI and the GTD around the track a few laps, and whilst i found myself enjoying the GTI's revvability at speeds WELL past legal limits, the GTD was by no means a slouch - to be honest, the handling of the GTD on the day only seemed slightly softer than the GTI - im guessing this had to do with the slightly higher/not-as-stiff suspension in the GTD, as well as taller profile tyres which might not have been inflated to reduce sidewall flex at track speeds - it was very much a marketing exercise for VW, after all. if i could have had a car to drive around the track all day for free, it would have been the GTI, but to live with (provided we werent allowed to modify!!!!), i'd have said a GTD.

i even heard tim from dub addiction saying that he was impressed with the GTD, and that he thought the diesel engine had lots of character.

take 'em both for a good drive on some twisty roads that hopefully are part of a loop that sees you having to do some banal soul-sucking in-town traffic work as well. then, go for the one that made you sadder to get out of, back at the dealership

my ¥20...

[dasrattles]

you sound just like me, follow your head (cause its the logical thing to do) but your heart nudges you at every corner.

my advice, go with the GTI, if its something you will truely enjoy, fuel economy is not going to bother you that much. when was the last time you pumped and went "oh right, if i had a XXX car, i'll only be paying $X" but in a car you truly love, every morning you'll hear yourself saying "hell yea i love this car"

to be absolutely honest, i bought the 118 because its cheaper to run, "i dont need the extra power anyway" (absolute BS i was feeding myself) and it was cheaper to buy. i now kick myself every time i see a GTI drive pass me. if you can afford it, go for it. the pleasure you get out of owning it outweighs anything else....

[SilvrFoxX]

you sound just like me, follow your head (cause its the logical thing to do) but your heart nudges you at every corner.

my advice, go with the GTI, if its something you will truely enjoy, fuel economy is not going to bother you that much. when was the last time you pumped and went "oh right, if i had a XXX car, i'll only be paying $X" but in a car you truly love, every morning you'll hear yourself saying "hell yea i love this car"

to be absolutely honest, i bought the 118 because its cheaper to run, "i dont need the extra power anyway" (absolute BS i was feeding myself) and it was cheaper to buy. i now kick myself every time i see a GTI drive pass me. if you can afford it, go for it. the pleasure you get out of owning it outweighs anything else....

heh.. I tried that post in the GTI v R thread.. the GTI boys don't buy it.. but you are right.

[Rob_R]

i've got a polo tdi - when Rob_R referred to diesels that can hold their own in the twisties, mine would be one of the ones he'd be talking about (tuned, suspension etc etc).

First time behind you I thought I'll only be half throttling. lol. When twisties started I was 'WTF' had a chuckle and had to boot it.

I bought my R from Burwin Ferntree Gully so it was close to the twisties which is great when test driving.

[Finance_Analyst]

One thing I am aware of, to the best of my understanding, is that the GTD uses the old belt driven system from the MkV, while the GTI is on the new chain system (as is all other petrol Mk6s, except for the R). Essentially, the GTD will have an expensive $1000+ timing belt change at 60k (ask any MkV GTI owner, or R owner who has already had it done as that also uses the old MkV GTI EA113 motor), while the GTI won't have one at all.

In short, while you save some in fuel, this cost will offset some portion of it I think.

[Buller_Scott]

the diesel belts are thicker than the petrol ones - 120,000km intervals is fine.

[andrew7]

thanks again for all the comments: best thing I can do I think is drive both again and see what feels best! Try and forget about fuel economy and focus on the drive experience. As I recall could'nt stop smiling with the GTI but at the same time was trying to discount it thinking to myself "should buy GTD, more sensible, good economy, good drive, best of both worlds". Just hoping the dealer is understanding about second thoughts having put in the GTD order albeit only 2 weeks ago- and 5 months wait as well (VW Camberwell)....

[SilvrFoxX]

Don't worry about the dealer.. for starters he can pull the order as you just want to change it so don't apologise to him/her just tell them you want to change. Next thing to understand that if it is 5 months to delivery chances are the order hasn't been picked up yet as it is sitting in the queue.. mine was in the wait state for 3 months.. in this time you can change the order and options as much as you want.. once it gets locked in by the factory that's when you can't change.

Then once you have that sorted start asking for the config you want ans ask them to search Australia wide for one in stock.. they have been running deals on the GTI of late so there should be a few about. Might be able to kill your wait time and be out there smiling earlier and then coming back here to ask what tune you should get