Golf 77TSI Details, Observations and Questions

[FJ Steve]

The truth is out there.. Golf R's now officially suck.

what authority are you quoting/basing this on?

[ratedr]

Am I seriously only the one that thinks this tarnishes the image of the 'Golf' ?? The R looks so indifferent from the rest of the model range... It's not so hot anymore!

If anything, at least Toyota are giving their new hot hatch a Lexus label. Much better than an overpriced Corolla. I am sure the tech on this upcoming model will far outstrip the bare bone R. R doesn't even have start/stop, memory seats, adaptive cruise control or standard bluetooth!?! The interior does little to stir enthusiasm.. It's all about the engine, AWD and handling dynamics.. But $40k for it? I think not. It's a go kart.

Driven a Lexus GS460? 2nd hand (2-3 years old) for the same money. 0-100 in less than 5 seconds and the tech is lightyears ahead of the vintage Golf.. V8 with same economy as the R.. I personally love how it hands you the steering wheel when you press the start button. That is $60k worth. New, they were $140k. Their resales suck, but take advantage! Just as expensive as a Golf R to run and maintain..

The R32 had the edge in being V6, it clearly seperated it from the pack... The R is just another turbo in the range.. I don't think it will hold value as well as R32.. And who is a fool that does not factor in resale?

Feel free to criticise.. I want to hear your views!

[FJ Steve]

so...what's your username gonna be now?

Toyotataxi?

[Rob Burns]

Unless 'Volkswagen' has changed meaning over the years I'm pretty sure it still translates to 'people's car'. A little silly to be elitist when you own a German Corolla no matter what is under the bonnet.

[pologti18t]

Am I seriously only the one that thinks this tarnishes the image of the 'Golf' ?? The R looks so indifferent from the rest of the model range... It's not so hot anymore!

If anything, at least Toyota are giving their new hot hatch a Lexus label. Much better than an overpriced Corolla. I am sure the tech on this upcoming model will far outstrip the bare bone R. R doesn't even have start/stop, memory seats, adaptive cruise control or standard bluetooth!?! The interior does little to stir enthusiasm.. It's all about the engine, AWD and handling dynamics.. But $40k for it? I think not. It's a go kart.

Driven a Lexus GS460? 2nd hand (2-3 years old) for the same money. 0-100 in less than 5 seconds and the tech is lightyears ahead of the vintage Golf.. V8 with same economy as the R.. I personally love how it hands you the steering wheel when you press the start button. That is $60k worth. New, they were $140k. Their resales suck, but take advantage! Just as expensive as a Golf R to run and maintain..

The R32 had the edge in being V6, it clearly seperated it from the pack... The R is just another turbo in the range.. I don't think it will hold value as well as R32.. And who is a fool that does not factor in resale?

Feel free to criticise.. I want to hear your views!

I have no idea how to counter your "logic"

Most luxo barges have poor resale value - doesn't matter if its a Audi, Merc or Lexus. You can buy any secondhand luxo barge for a huge discount on the new car price. So what if you can buy a secondhand GS430 for 60K. I can buy a secondhand R32 for MUCH less than 60K. So what's your point?

VW has relatively good resale residuals simply because they combine european qualities with reasonable prices.
If you make a product that is both of high quality and of reasonable price then it will sell and the resale will be assured. I put forward the Mazda 3 as an example. It sells well, its a good drive and is reasonably priced. Resale on these things is amazing.

[ratedr]

I have no idea how to counter your "logic"

Most luxo barges have poor resale value - doesn't matter if its a Audi, Merc or Lexus. You can buy any secondhand luxo barge for a huge discount on the new car price. So what if you can buy a secondhand GS430 for 60K. I can buy a secondhand R32 for MUCH less than 60K. So what's your point?

VW has relatively good resale residuals simply because they combine european qualities with reasonable prices.
If you make a product that is both of high quality and of reasonable price then it will sell and the resale will be assured. I put forward the Mazda 3 as an well, its a good drive and is reasonably priced. Resale on these things is amazing.

You drive a polo?? Definition of **** on a stick

[pologti18t]

You drive a polo?? Definition of **** on a stick

That's your opinion Does the job.

[phaeton]

Am I seriously only the one that thinks this tarnishes the image of the 'Golf' ?? The R looks so indifferent from the rest of the model range... It's not so hot anymore!

You could buy the Audi S3 if you want prestige.

The Golf is the benchmark in its class for a reason the tech, safety, value & name have sold in every class - basically its classless.

From someone buying their first car to a Professional buying a Golf R it reaches all price pockets just like a Commodore to HSV.

In fact VW are one of the only brands which is moving upper class while everyone is moving down Lexus, Mercedes, BMW & Land Rover are just some examples.

[markwid]

Am I seriously only the one that thinks this tarnishes the image of the 'Golf' ?? The R looks so indifferent from the rest of the model range... It's not so hot anymore!

Fair enough - everyone is entitled to their opinion.

That said, I am sure there is a positive angle to this too. Some may appreciate the fact that R looks discreet. It doesn't draw the wrong kind of attention from the "popo" at one glance.

[triode12]

You drive a polo?? Definition of **** on a stick

If the Polo is **** on a stick then what would you call the Yaris, Swift, Jazz, Fiesta and Mazda 2? pools of diarrohea?

[Inception.dln]

*eats popcorn*

[PassatB6]

Polo and Golf have won WCOTYs and so many other awards its becoming mundane. No-one has to justify buying any version of either of these vehicles especially to someone who is just being a troll.

[AdamD]

Am I seriously only the one that thinks this tarnishes the image of the 'Golf' ?? The R looks so indifferent from the rest of the model range... It's not so hot anymore!

If you feel that the 77TSI and R look too similar, and that the former tarnishes the look of the latter, then I would respectfully suggest that the subtle qualities of the R's styling package are lost on you, and you would be much better off buying something else. Perhaps something louder.

I also personally think the base MkVI Golfs are handsome cars, but are lacking certain styling embellishments that the GTI and R deliver in spades. I certainly don't mind that the base models exist - in contrast they make my car look better.

If anything, at least Toyota are giving their new hot hatch a Lexus label. Much better than an overpriced Corolla. I am sure the tech on this upcoming model will far outstrip the bare bone R. R doesn't even have start/stop, memory seats, adaptive cruise control or standard bluetooth!?! The interior does little to stir enthusiasm.. It's all about the engine, AWD and handling dynamics.. But $40k for it? I think not. It's a go kart.

Lexus vehicles are, with very few exceptions, badge-engineered Toyotas. This is no bad thing - Toyota builds cars well. But don't fool yourself that by buying a Lexus you're getting a better standard of design, engineering or manufacture than you would in a Corolla. Lexus doesn't have a distinct design language, and their technology is straight ToMoCo. They do, however, feature more toys and more chrome.

As for describing the R as "bare boned", and insinuating that the R is somehow technically simpler than its competition, can I draw your attention to the incredible DSG and latest-gen Haldex diff technology, the direct injection, the standard touchscreen audio... to name just a few of the R's strong distinguishing points.

Driven a Lexus GS460? 2nd hand (2-3 years old) for the same money. 0-100 in less than 5 seconds and the tech is lightyears ahead of the vintage Golf.

Motor magazine describes the GS460 as "Supposedly Japan's 5 Series but it's miles adrift - soft, characterless, flawed". If that's the kind of car that appeals to you, then the Lexus or similar will fit the bill, I'm sure. The Golf R is not that kind of car, and is not aimed at that type of buyer: it instead appeals primarily to the performance enthusiast market. I interpret an enthusiast in this context as a buyer who's prepared to forego some features (such as a start button) in exchange for all-round performance (acceleration, handling, feel, predictability, dynamism). Is that you?

I want to hear your views!

Well, you did ask.

[V6Passat]

Am I seriously only the one that thinks this tarnishes the image of the 'Golf' ?? The R looks so indifferent from the rest of the model range... It's not so hot anymore!

If anything, at least Toyota are giving their new hot hatch a Lexus label. Much better than an overpriced Corolla. I am sure the tech on this upcoming model will far outstrip the bare bone R. R doesn't even have start/stop, memory seats, adaptive cruise control or standard bluetooth!?! The interior does little to stir enthusiasm.. It's all about the engine, AWD and handling dynamics.. But $40k for it? I think not. It's a go kart.

Driven a Lexus GS460? 2nd hand (2-3 years old) for the same money. 0-100 in less than 5 seconds and the tech is lightyears ahead of the vintage Golf.. V8 with same economy as the R.. I personally love how it hands you the steering wheel when you press the start button. That is $60k worth. New, they were $140k. Their resales suck, but take advantage! Just as expensive as a Golf R to run and maintain..

The R32 had the edge in being V6, it clearly seperated it from the pack... The R is just another turbo in the range.. I don't think it will hold value as well as R32.. And who is a fool that does not factor in resale?

Feel free to criticise.. I want to hear your views!

I think everyone should slow down, take a deep breath and RELAX......Remember, pricing is one thing, but before the world caves in and Golf out sells corolla, Mazda 3 etc there would need to be astronomical sales in a very short period of time in Australia...I cant see this happening too quickly the auto landscape surely doesnt change that quickly. How many more VW Dealers would you need in a city or town to outsell corolla etc? The 3/4 in Brisbane probably couldnt move enough (assuming they could get stock) to make a marked leap in the numbers. Just my 2 cents worth.

[dave_r]

Am I seriously only the one that thinks this tarnishes the image of the 'Golf' ?? The R looks so indifferent from the rest of the model range... It's not so hot anymore!

I'm really not sure which Golf R you were set on buying to think that things have changed so much. The ONLY difference is now the price of entry to the Golf range is slightly lower. Big deal.

Good luck with your overpriced camry.