To buy or not to buy

[Ryan_R]

I've hinted at my situation a few times before, but I'll tell the whole story here and see what you guys think.

I'm currently 21 and work 4 days/week full time in the Melbourne CBD (I'm about 45km S.E.). I drive a 1992 AE92 Toyota Corolla Hatchback (TwinCam). Apparently from some web searching I've done, it had ~60kW when new (although in certain circumstances and with Shell vPower it feels more powerful).

Anyway, I've long wanted a Golf mk6, particularly the 118 TSI or better, with the RNS-510 option (well, I wanted all the options, but that's not going to happen)

A friend of mine buys German cars (mainly VW's and Audi's) from auction, that are generally listed as 'repairable write-offs'. He I think you can see where this is going.

Towards the end of March 2010 he picked up a 2009 MY10 VW Golf 118 TSI DSG with leather seats. It had some damage to the front of the car. Since then he has replaced the damaged panels and plastic engine covers with new parts from VW. The car's dimensions are correct. The engine didn't move in the crash, and the airbags didn't deploy, so the impact was pretty light.

He drives a mk5 Golf with his wife and kids, and is selling an older Bora to another friend, so there are no trust issues, but that's not going to stop me getting a 2nd (and 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc) opinion.

A new car of this spec would cost me $37,990 + on road (which I'm sure I could get the dealer to discount). The repaired Golf, with 5,400kms on the clock, could be all mine for about $24,000. I'm sure he could sell it for more if we weren't friends.

I called the RACV car advice line and asked about repairable write-offs. The guy advised me not to touch them since it stays on the cars record forever and affects the sale price at the other end. I didn't actually get a chance to tell him what the car was or how much I was planning on paying for it, maybe that would've changed his mind.

I plan on keeping the car for as long as it's practical to do so, but I like to think that if I did have to sell it in the next few years, i could recoup most of my money. I can't justify spending ~$40,000 on a new car, and I don't really want to wait 2 years for the current cars to be sold cheaper as 2nd hand. I will be testing out the car soon (it's getting polished atm), and is in the queue (which is backlogged) for VIV to inspect it.

If I get the car, I also plan on getting the RNS-510 and probably will get the APR upgrade (at least by the end of the year). I'd also like an MDI and bluetooth but I'm not the type of person to pull things apart that much. i can worry about those two items much later, though. I've read through the owners manual for the car and have photocopied the details for the engine details and previous owner, who I have yet to contact to get her thoughts.

So, the main questions are:
1) What would you ask the seller for additional peace of mind?
2) What would you look/listen for on a test drive?
3) Would you buy it if you were me?

[GoLfMan]

I can honestly say that as long as it has been repaired properly and you know the history of it, for that price i'd get it.

If the inspection checks out and its all legit, I dont see a problem. Especially if you are going to keep the car for an extended period of time.

Ask the seller if all repairs have been done by a certified panel beater, ask to see invoices for the new parts etc.

good luck!

[nau]

all I can say do independent FULL exam on a car
and what GolfMan said .... if it was proper repair thn why not...

[Corey_R]

The re-registering of repairable write-offs in NSW has either been banned, or is about to be banned. The reason is, insuranace companies write them off for a reason. YES they are repairable, but it's not ECONOMICALLY VIABLE for them to do so.

Specifically in NSW, over 60% of repairable write offs that are repaired and re-registered cannot account for where the parts to perform the repairs were obtained. In other words... dodgy people are going to the auctions, buying these repairable write-offs, stealing an identical car from the streets, taking the parts from the stolen car, and then putting them on the repairable write-off and selling that, thus making a tidy profit.

This all leads to questions for your mate. Whilst I'm not saying that he is a criminal, I do question how a car which supposedly only had minor panel damage and a few plastic pieces to be replaced was written off due to being "too expensive to repair". Either this was not the reason it was written off, or something dodgy has occured to get it back into road-worthy condition and you don't have the full story.

If it wasn't a financial write-off, and it was water or fire damage, AVOID IT AT ALL COSTS! It could be fine for a while and then start giving you all sorts of problems could be very costly to replace.


Finally, regardless of what the reason it was written off and how good/legitimate the repairs are, you may or may NOT be able to purchase comprehensive insurance coverage for the car. I have family members who have had their own car written off due to hail, bought it back, but can't obtain comprehensive insurance on it anymore. Their advice from the insurance company has been not to bother repairing the damage as that won't change the fact that it can't be comprehensively insured. Different states and companies and write-offs probably have different rules and conditions though, so investigate this for yourself. But just don't assume that you WILL be able to get comprehensive insurance

[Ryan_R]

Thanks for the confidence boost. Here are some snapshots from a video I took on my phone back from March so you can see the damage (and the interior colour scheme, the cream doesn't look as bad in real life as what it sounded when he first described it to me.

Picasa Web Albums - Ryan - Golf VI 118 T...

If I do get it, I can't wait


IIRC, he paid about $9,000 for it at auction, and he reckoned at the time that it would cost him $17,000 to fix it. Add labour, and 23/24k is a decent price. Someone else asked me about comprehensive insurance. He hasn't had an issue with it, but I will double-check closer to the date. No fire or water damage. He has another golf that got light hail damage on the roof from those storms in S.E. VIC back in March that he can't do much with.

[+] Here's another photo I took a few weeks back, when the car had new headlights and plastic bits (the engine had been out of the car after going to the panel beaters, and has now been put back in). The new front bumper was in a box behind me:



Maybe I should've just left the bumper off, it looks a bit meaner that way :p

[Cossor]

Check with your preferred insurance
Or else settle for third part property insurance.

See Coreying post
pecifically in NSW, over 60% of repairable write offs that are repaired and re-registered cannot account for where the parts to perform the repairs were obtained. In other words... dodgy people are going to the auctions, buying these repairable write-offs, stealing an identical car from the streets, taking the parts from the stolen car, and then putting them on the repairable write-off and selling that, thus making a tidy profit.

Ask to see all invoices. Also request thorough inspection from RACV, but first also request their opinion and advice, also re value.

[Ryan_R]

Thanks - I'll ask to see them, although I have no concerns over the legitimacy of the work (I appreciate your concern though, of course).

[Cossor]

Your biggest enemy is being enthusiastic, so easy to fall in love, and ignore the pitfalls.
Re the 5400 on the clock, very nice, BUT I wonder if VW would honour the warranty? Check with a VW dealer.
And, if this is supposed to be an ins write off, please consider stress that may have been applied to all mechanicals.
After all, there is usually a very good reason why a virtually new car is written off .
Re your friend's time and effort, is he restoring it for the love of it, and not a commercial proposition?
Consider vital that you obtain advice from RACV. If not a member, then I think they will inspect or advise for a fee.
Also vital that ALL serial numbers, compliance plates etc are able to be verified as kosher.

[dopey]

Honestly man you're better off getting one that hasn't been crashed. With a repaired write-off you may have hassles with insurance, and at resale time the value will not only be lower but it will be a pain to sell as there's not many people around who want to buy a repaired write-off. VW Warranty is also worth its weight in gold.

Check this out: This car has a few more KMS but nothing over the top, and is similarly specced. Assuming it too hasn't had a big bingle it's a good buy:
2009 VOLKSWAGEN GOLF 118TSI DSG COMFORTLINE VI MY10 Private Cars For Sale in NSW - carsales.com.au
It does appear to have an aftermarket/"dealer fitted" leather retrim though

Also, this one would be able to be had at a good price:

http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/private/details.aspx?R=8864859&__Qpb=true&Cr=1&__Ns=pCar_PriceSort_Decimal|0||pCar_RankSort_Int32|1||pCar_Make_String|0||pCar_Model_String|0&keywords=&__N=1216%201247%201282%204294962746%204294962677%204294784671&SearchAction=N&silo=1011&seot=1&tsrc=allcarhome&__Nne=15&trecs=15&__sid=129415BA8768

[gerhard]

As the old saying goes - "It's hard to drive a used car bargain....."

The absolute maximum price to pay for a repairable write-off that has been repaired is 50% of the trade price of an original one.

Redbook

so you should pay no more than $11,000.

Why? Because that's all you will ever get as a trade-in in the future - 50% of the price on an original unrepaired car, and you may not be able to get insurance.

Walk away is my advice.

[Cossor]

I'm with Dopey
For a quality car, not worth the risks.
And do not forget, possible BIG stress on DSG at point of impact
Also 118TSI has had some bad press re engine failures. (Important to have engine remap)

[Ryan_R]

Thanks for the extra feedback. If I were to test drive it a bit, would there be any way to tell if there is sustained mechanical damage. What do you think from looking at those pictures I linked to earlier

i.e.





When you speak of load on the DSG, are you referring to the actual crash forces or more-so just the sudden stop. The Golf had hardly any damage at all compared to the other cars in the workshop, so while I don't want to be too enthusiastic, I don't want to dismiss it too quickly and miss out, as it were. If I keep the car for 10 years, I'm not too worried about the resale price. Some of the cars you linked to looked tempting (shame it was in QLD), but I'm not keen on spending over $30,000 on a car this year (granted, you could easily spend $30k on a number of inferior cars).

I am an RACV member, so I have access to their inspection services at a discounted rate.

From looking at the photos, I'm interested to hear your guesses as to how fast you think the car was moving at impact. The radiator and surrounds doesn't even look that bad from the photos.

Thanks again for your help, I'll keep you updated as to how things progress. If you have any other thoughts feel free to share them.

[Corey_R]

When you speak of load on the DSG, are you referring to the actual crash forces or more-so just the sudden stop.

More than likely both?

[jj77]

With cars, especially those involved in an accident, it's hard to tell what or when problems will creep. My brother's previous brand new car was involved in a car accident and the repair cost was about $9000 (covered by insurance). After the repair the car looked as new but after a while, in fact less than a month, problems started to appear including squeaky noise, etc. My brother couldn't stand the creeping problems and sold the car less than a year.

Like others, I would say stay away from written-off/repaired cars - you just don't know what (costly) hidden problems the car might have.

J

[Cossor]

I think the insurance inspector would have had a fair idea of possible problems.
And crash repairers have to give a realistic quote, especially with the so called "lifetime warranty"
In this case there will be no crash repair warranty (Apart from the good will from your friend)
I strongly suspect VW will not support any warranty claims. So too bad if problems with ANY part of the car.
I think the only attractive part is if you are prepared to do all maintenance, repairs etc yourself,
and consider a possible write off in an accident due to no comprehensive ins.