DSG: Problems, Questions, Likes and Dislikes

[logger]

After test driving the 118TSI last year I really noticed the turbo lag too...

Your talking the piss, right?

[GTI mk6]

Your talking the piss, right?

Sorry logger, bit unsure of what you mean?

Maybe it was the DSG hesitation and not the turbo lag.
All I can say from driving them both is that the "hesitation" was more noticeable
in the 118.
Hey its just my opinion based on the two different test drives.

[Ryan_R]

It's not 100% lag - it feels like you're in a manual with your foot on the clutch and you're trying to pull away in 3rd gear, which means there's a slow take-up. The MDF of course reports 1st gear to be selected, and if I push a lot harder on the gas (not used to the stiff pedal) I'm suddenly doing 60kph. Give me another week to get used to it and I'll update you again

[cameronp]

Sorry logger, bit unsure of what you mean?

Maybe it was the DSG hesitation and not the turbo lag.
All I can say from driving them both is that the "hesitation" was more noticeable
in the 118.
Hey its just my opinion based on the two different test drives.

The 118TSI definitely has a slight hesitation from the DSG, but the whole point of the supercharger+turbocharger set up is that there is no turbo lag. I haven't driven any other DSG-equipped car to see if they're any different.

It's not 100% lag - it feels like you're in a manual with your foot on the clutch and you're trying to pull away in 3rd gear, which means there's a slow take-up. The MDF of course reports 1st gear to be selected, and if I push a lot harder on the gas (not used to the stiff pedal) I'm suddenly doing 60kph. Give me another week to get used to it and I'll update you again

Heh. I still find the Golf's accelerator pedal to be ridiculously sensitive - my last car I had to push the pedal down a lot further to get it to go. What I usually do when taking off is press the accelerator only very gently, and then if I want to go fast press it a lot harder once you can feel the clutch has taken up. It took a while to convince myself that I could safely pull into small gaps in traffic with the DSG, but you do eventually get used to it.

[Ryan_R]

The lag is mostly gone now with the proper petrol in the tank. Driving home on the Monash FWY tonight stuck in traffic - the delay was about 0.4 seconds.

[Syd118TSI]

About 0.4 seconds. Love how precise your estimation is! (unless you're measuring it somehow).

At any length, that's good news.

[Ryan_R]

It's like the red squirrels for 11 miles sign - if I said 0.5 no-one would believe me

[cameronp]

About 0.4 seconds. Love how precise your estimation is! (unless you're measuring it somehow).

At any length, that's good news.

I wonder if logger has, er, logs to measure it more exactly.

[Maverick]

I still find the Golf's accelerator pedal to be ridiculously sensitive - my last car I had to push the pedal down a lot further to get it to go.

Because your last car had an antiquated conventional pedal. The Golf has a fly by wire electronic pedal that gives instant response.

[Jasonpb]

Been driving a polo a fair bit lately with the DSG, been caught out a few times where you go to take off and there's a slight delay but today I went to pull out in front of a car (flat road) and almost got impacted side on, delay was probably 3 seconds but seemed like it took for ever it scared the **** out of me.

[Ryan_R]

Maybe it's because we don't use Sport mode enough, so the car has to find other ways to scare its drivers

[Syd118TSI]

Been driving a polo a fair bit lately with the DSG, been caught out a few times where you go to take off and there's a slight delay but today I went to pull out in front of a car (flat road) and almost got impacted side on, delay was probably 3 seconds but seemed like it took for ever it scared the **** out of me.

Wow, 3 seconds is very dangerous. Wonder what went wrong there.

[logger]

About 0.4 seconds. Love how precise your estimation is! (unless you're measuring it somehow).

At any length, that's good news.

I wonder if logger has, er, logs to measure it more exactly.

I am just wondering where to start with this one. Which parameters to look at? We know the issue is unwanted delay between when we want to the car to go and when it actually does. But how do we express this in terms of something measurable?

So do I measure..
FROM accelerator press, or
FROM Brake Pedal release

TO RPM rise, or
TO Motion in KMH (from ABS), or
TO Clutch movement...

Had a quick look earlier, thinking I would look to measuring delay from accelerator press to clutch movement. Compare it between Stock and APR tune to see why the latter seemingly does not have the lag. Straight away found this to be flawed way to measure it.
The K1 Clutch moves towards engaging before I even touch the accelerator. It is triggered by releasing the brake pedal. Without actually recording it, I can see the clutch has moved most of the way towards engaged before my foot is fully off the brake pedal it is that quick. This results in the forward creep you will see when crawling in traffic. So no accel pedal at all required. OTOH if you stop on an upslope, release the brake, couple seconds of hill hold, then ABS releases brakes and you merrily roll backward til the cows come home without any hint of clutch movement. I expected it might slowly engage but it does not unless you touch the accelerator in this state. So there is more to the lag than just the clutch.
Also at this point I am looking to find where I can pull the "hill hold active" state out of VCDS. Have not found that one just yet as it would be interesting to see when it triggers. Not that I believe it is the cause of the delay on launch we are looking at.

[Ryan_R]

Well, in my (very) old car - it would creep at about 3kph as soon as I released the brake pedal. I'm not too fussed about that, I just want the car to move when I tell it to, ala when I press the accelerator, measuring until car movement is discernible. I am starting to get used to it now, but if you ever test drive a Mazda 3 SP25 which has similar power, but no delay, the difference is night and day. You see any sized gap in traffic an think 'I can make that easily'. I'd never go for one of course since I can't stand the looks and interior of that car

[Corey_R]

The Mazda SP25 is manual or auto... not an automated manual...