DSG: Problems, Questions, Likes and Dislikes

[Syd118TSI]

Just drove up the steep inclined drive, and again it behaved in the same way. I took a little more notice of the gear I was in up the incline, but not the speed. Basically as I started going up it was in third, part way up it dropped down to second to maintain speed, then towards the top I let off the accelerator because I had effectively reached the top and was going to coast out onto the cul-de-sac, when I let off it went back into first, then as I went to accelerate once on the cul-de-sac first gear revved to 3,500 RPM at which point I let off on the accelerator and let the car coast again for a moment, before resuming accelerating. Bewing that I had just started the car a few minutes earlier on quite a cool night the last thing I wanted to be doing is revving it 'hard'.

I might take a video of the instrument cluster next time to see whether anyone thinks I'm just being pedantic. I'll also do it when the engine is warmed up so it won't be as bad if it revs out more, and that will allow me to see at what point it changes into second.

Normally at approx 2,500RPM it will change from first into second.

[prise]

I've noticed my 7spd DSG uses road gradient in addition to speed end load to adjust the shift points. Occasionally it will get caught out as it has no way to measure the gradient ahead of the vehicle or the drivers intentions. It's likely that yours has adjusted for the gradient up the drive and got caught out by the sudden change of gradient at the cul-de-sac and the off-on accelerator. I wouldn't be concerned about 3500 RPM - the cars designed to be started and driven in much lower temperatures than we experience in Australia.

[logger]

.... Being that I had just started the car a few minutes earlier on quite a cool night the last thing I wanted to be doing is revving it 'hard'.
..
Normally at approx 2,500RPM it will change from first into second.

My 2c. I suspect it is nothing to do with the Gearbox and all to do with the Engine being cold. My DSG7 upshifts at much higher revs (holds the lower gears MUCH MUCH longer) when it is cold as compared to when it has warmed up. I see these higher REVs as part of its normal strategy to achieve optimum temp ASAP. Does yours do the same thing once the engine is properly warmed up?

[Syd118TSI]

Haven't tried it warmed up, however after I ease up when back on the cul-de-sac it then will resume the normal pattern of upshifting from 1st and 2nd at approx 2500RPM despite it feasibly not being significantly warmer than it was a number of seconds prior.

Will see how it goes when warm anyway.

[logger]

Haven't tried it warmed up, however after I ease up when back on the cul-de-sac it then will resume the normal pattern of upshifting from 1st and 2nd at approx 2500RPM despite it feasibly not being significantly warmer than it was a number of seconds prior.

Makes sense to me. It attempts a warm up strategy using higher RPM, however due to the way and where it is being driven, it aborts this strategy and reverts to the shift points you are more used to. Not because it is warmer but because some other criteria is triggered when you back off. Anyway try it with the engine warmed up and see how you get on.

[Syd118TSI]

...revved out to 5000RPM before changing to second when trying again. The car would have been a little warmer, but I'd say not fully warmed up. I took a very bad video of it, that I'll have a look at and see if it's worth uploading.

[Syd118TSI]

Ok, so here's two videos of it occurring. With the first the car was not fully warmed up, but wasn't cold either. With the second it was fully warmed up. Apologies in advance for the horrible quality of the videos.

Not fully warmed up:

Fully warmed up:

I just tested (cold) to see what would happen if I came to a stop at the top of the drive before entering the cul-de-sac. Again the DSG wanted to hang onto 1st.. when the engine hit around 4000RPM I backed off. Then when I resumed accelerating it went through into 2nd like normal...

Thoughts?

[Corey_R]

Thoughts?

I'm not really sure what else you want us to tell you mate. Several of us have given you our suggestions. Those are that the car doesn't have eyes in it, and it can only attempt to predict what it thinks you are doing. No one else has indicated they think there is an issue either.

Have a look at the first video.
You start driving it changes to 2nd at 14kph.
It momentarily changes to 3rd at 24 then changes straight back, probably cause the incline is too great.
You seem to average around 30, momentarily hitting 34kph.
You slow down to 14 or lower, presumably at the top of the driveaway and it goes back down to 1st gear.
You then accelerate away, and as soon as you get past the speed you did up the hill on the driveaway, it changes into 2nd at 35kph.

What is wrong with that? As I said, it doesn't have eyes, it doesn't know that there isn't about to be another incline. It probably comes to the conclusion once you exceed your previous fastest speed that there isn't going to be another and then it shifts up!

Have you had this issue when starting on a flat ground? I'd figure you'd have mentioned it if you did... more the reason why I don't think there is an issue.

But at the end of the day, no one on the forums matters. It's what you and your dealer think.

[Syd118TSI]

I wanted to know whether this is normal behaviour. I've driven many cars (only manual and traditional automatic cars) up the same drive without experiencing anything unusual. The point of posting it on here was to qualify it with other DSG drivers as to whether this normal behaviour.

I've only mentioned it in passing to the dealer, who thought that it sounded odd and suggested that it should be looked at.

Up the hill it's doing 30 odd in second gear and never goes above 3000RPM, it changes from first into second between 11 and 15 kmph and barely gets past 2000RPM in that change. Why it would then decide that it needs to go to 5000/5500RPM before changing to second is what I don't understand.

There has been no similar behaviour on flat ground. It would be good to properly understand why it behaves this way.

[Corey_R]

Because you've just slowed down to <=14... so it changes back to 1.
Manuals are controlled by you, so of course you're not going to have any issue. Autos are torque converters and usually have little intelligence. The DSG is an automated manual. There is an AI brain which does what the manual driver would normally do.

It's not deciding that it needs to go to 5500 rpm, it's deciding that it's on a steep incline for a "long time" (since being started) and you are doing a slow speed (30) and then you REALLY slow down (<=14) and it's then not sure what you are going to do next or what terrain is coming next.

It then re-adapts within a few seconds...

I would guess that the "why" this happens is due to you slowing down to <=14. If you didn't do that and just stayed at ~30 and accelerated away from that, there wouldn't be any "issue".

[Syd118TSI]

Then what I want to know is what makes it think it is on a steep incline. On the actual incline it doesn't feel like it needs to stay in first up to 35/40 kmph. At the top of the incline I slow down not by using the brakes, but by easing my foot off the accelerator.

It would be nice to just stay at 30'ish but unfortunately not safe. Coming to a complete stop at pretty level ground at the top of the driveway and then accelerating still resulted in the DSG holding 1st to 35/40 ish and 5000/5500 RPM.

I'd like to know what dictates that it's on an incline, and what then dictates that it no longer is. Because of the decent amount of torque that it has it really doesn't struggle to go up the driveway, as you can see it stays under 3000RPM in second gear, so I don't understand under what circumstance it should think that it needs to hang onto first for so long, unless it's thinking that the incline all of a sudden got a whole lot more steep.

It would be nice to take the guess work out of it so that I can change my driving behaviour to suit the DSG. I appreciate that the driveway is a little bit of an odd set of conditions.

Thanks for sticking with me through what may seem like a tedious set of circumstances. I don't think there's anything wrong with the DSG because it behaves fine in other circumstances, so I'm not keen on taking it to the dealers/service centre when there's nothing they can do.

[Corey_R]

But you don't come to a complete stop... maybe try coming to a complete stop next time. Like when you get to the top of the drive way and then are on the actual cul-de-sac. Stop for 5 seconds. Then accelerate away and see what happens. I have no idea if that is enough for it to ignore the previous data it has gathered or if that's enough time for it to figure it's not on an incline anymore or what.

As for knowing what the circumstances and taking out the guess work... These forums are not sponsored by VW, so no one who wrote the software for your car is looking here to give you the exact parametres which go into the AI of the car or the gearbox. Even if you had a VCDS cable and plugged your laptop into the car, you'd only be able to monitor the different parametres to get a better tabulated view of what was happening - you would then still only be able to "guestimate" what was going into the decision making.

[Syd118TSI]

Yep, appreciate that.

The time where I come to a complete stop I haven't got captured on video. I made sure the digitial display read 0 before then accelerating out of the driveway, with the same mild use of the accelerator as usual (eg. I'm not tramping on the accelerator so it's not holding first for that reason). When it went above 4000RPM still in first I backed right off letting the car coast for a while to the corner before then accelerating again and experiencing the normal behaviour - a change from first to second at 10-15 kmph and just over 2000RPM.

I really thought that coming to a stop like that would prevent it from happening.

[Corey_R]

I would say that if coming to a stop would make a difference, it'd hvae to be for at least a few seconds with your foot on the brake (so 5 seconds to be safe).

[DeanoTDI]

Love the DSG. Best automatic transmission ever. it can be rough though at times, or indecisive. You really need to learn how to drive it. If you drive it hard when you first get it, it tends to be a bit rougher. If you want to start the learn function again simply ask your Service Department to reset the DSG computer for you. You'll even notice then that it's like a new car when you get back in and it's smooth. It usually takes about 20-30km's for it to adapt to your driving style.