DSG: Problems, Questions, Likes and Dislikes

[logger]

I'll bet you R and 2 are selected and both clutches are disengaged when in N on the DSG6, like on the DSG7..... I have a dsg6 service bulletin lying around that mentions this. Will see if I can dig it up.

Here I found the Tech Bulletin DSG6 35 06-01 14/3/06.
It relates to customer complaints of the DSG6 experiencing momentary delays when accelerating in various scenarios. In the accelerate from stop case, it explains a possible reason for poor acceleration, when starting off within a second of moving the selector to drive, is due to the fact that the GB has preselected 2nd and R. This is due to the fact than when you are sitting there in N it has no way of knowing which way you intend to drive and therefore it preselects a forward gear and reverse.

COMPLAINT Delay when accelerating from stop...
COMPLAINT ... when moving selector lever from position “N”or “P” to “D” and accelerating within less than 1 second.
CAUSE 1st, and reverse gears are on one shaft. 2nd gear is on the other shaft. The DSG cannot determine whether the vehicle will be driven forwards or backwards. Therefore, the gearbox has mechanically preselected reverse gear and 2nd gear.
CAUSE DSG Starts out in 2nd gear and then changes into 1st gear during acceleration phase. Initial acceleration in 2nd gear could be perceived as inadequate.
CORRECTIVE ACTION No action required. operating as designed.

So apart from clarifying that gears are indeed selected when in "N", it also implies that if you were to wait longer than a second after selecting "D" prior to starting off - the system will have had time to establish you intend to drive forward and will select 1st instead of "R".
The DSG7 will not have this same issue owing to it having a third gear shaft for R (and Park), allowing simulataneous selection of 1st and R. Wonder if this issue had a part in the design change?

[hazamatic]

Interesting info! I go from R to D quickly all the time. I'll see if i can notice the reduced acceleration next time.

[cs^mkvi]

I have been driving my MK6 GTI with DSG for just over a week now.. I came from a 2005 Manual Subaru STi.. The only time I notice the delay is in reverse. You move from P to R and there is about a second pause before the clutch engages and you have drive. Was a little bit odd the first time but I got used to it quickly.
As for accelerating forwards, I have never had a delay that is worth mentioning, there is a slight pause if you have been on the brakes for a while but nothing worth worrying about. When I am taking off from a stop sign etc, i let go of the brake in anticipation of when I want to move off, this allows the clutch to engage and you have instant drive. I think it is all about getting used to the way the box operates. I could see that if you came from a traditional auto you are used to instant drive as I got back into my sister's Chrysler Neon which is auto and there are no pauses. I think the pause is a problem for most people because

A) It would not happen on a traditional auto but this works unlike a conventional auto so it will be different.

B) If you had a manual clutch there is a similar sort of delay as the clutch reaches the grab point and you balance it to take off - the difference is that you are controlling this with your left foot and hence you have more sense of what is actually going on, where as the automatic nature of the DSG can sometime catch people off guard and hence they think it is unresponsive because they did not "feel" it happen..

This could be different with the DSG7 but I love the DSG6, all the power and response of a manual but it will do the changing for me - paddles in the country for spirited driving. It is really the best of both worlds.

[ethosguy]

Can any one comment how a DSG behaves when really subtle clutch control/movement is needed; such as when reversing a trailer uphill through a semi blind gate?

Also, how does DSG deal with the mixed message of left foot braking to trim the car during very sprited driving - tuck the nose in/unweight the rear mid corner to manage understeer by pressing the brake while using the throttle. Does it let you play or make some gear change decision?
DSG appeals; to be able to increase the opportunity for left foot braking without the inherent risk to the g/box in a manual when the dance goes a bit wrong. Was it Timo Makkanin who described this the technique in an ancient rally video in his works Mini... 'you very often ruin the gearbox...'

[Corey_R]

In relation to reversing uphill - with or without a trailer, this is a weakness of basically all of these "flappy paddle gearboxes". Some are better than others, but yeah, it's not as easy as in a manual.

The Golf is one of the cars with an electronic accelerator and "Brake Override". This means that having your foot on the brake disables the accelerator. However, you have a "grace period" before the override comes into effect. I'm told it's 2 seconds - but this just comes from other "knowledgable members" here, rather than some official VW document that I've read. So as long as you're not riding the brake, you can still perform a left foot braking maneuver.
As for gear change decisions... as it's two manual gearboxes strapped together, when accelerating/braking there are invariably two gears selected, and the clutch is engaged on one box and disengaged on the other. It then figures out whether you want to change up or down based on the speed/rpm/maybe other things, and definitely by what your feet are doing. So if you're left foot braking and accelerating and then want to change gears, who knows if it will know whether you want to change up or down

[ethosguy]

I was trying to understand if DSG will change gear by itself while left foot braking; only relevant to Sport mode I'd suppose?
Pete

[manyoo]

From the wiki about DSG it says the following:

"In the interests of engine preservation, when accelerating in Manual/tiptronic mode, the DSG will still automatically change up just before the redline, and when decelerating, it will change down automatically at very low revs, just before the engine idle speed (tickover)."

So it can be when you brakes and it's at low revs, it just shift down the gear.

[Syd118TSI]

Had an interesting experience in the 118tsi with DSG. After driving up a lengthy (2-300m) driveway with quite a step incline once you have departed the steep drive and are back on the road the DSG stays in 1st gear, and consequently as you accelerate it the RPMs climb quickly and you don't get the response you're expecting. Backing right off before engaging again and it seems to sort itself out and goes through the gears as normal.

This happened twice in the same way on the same driveway (I was only driving one time) so it seems like something that can quite easily be reproduced. can anyone explain why this might happen? If I know exactly why it's happening we can change the way we take the driveway to prevent it.

I suspect if I slow almost to a stop at the top of the drive it will be ok, as it is I keep some of the speed from going up the drive exiting into the end of the cul-de-sac (hence no traffic).

[Corey_R]

I would say that it's saying in 1st because you're doing very low speeds and going up a steep incline. It doesn't have eyes like you do, so it can't tell whether it's momentarily leveled off or is about to start climbing again. I would say that it will do the same thing each time, so just remember its going to do that... (in a car with paddle's I'd tell ya to just manually change up, but 118TSI doesn't have them).

[Syd118TSI]

I don't think the actual speeds are that low - next time I will have to take note to see what gear it is in, and what speed it's at towards the top of the incline. As it is when I reach the top I slow down a little, then look to accelerate once back out on the road. The angle of the drive is such that you can maintain a decent speed exiting onto the cul-de-sac.

I would have though that the DSG should 'realise' that the revs were going too high and change the gear accordingly. It makes sense that it would still think that it's going up an incline but it would be good to know what will key it off to the fact that it's back on flat ground.

It's my parents drive, so something that it will be climbing quite frequently, so I'll get planety of chances to accurately note what it's doing and hopefully will find a way to avoid this.

[Corey_R]

Yeah - keep an eye on what speed you're doing and what gear it's in - that may give some more accurate information.

The DSG will always upshift to prevent engine damage from the revs beeing too high. But I understand what you're saying in that it's holding on for longer than it should given the "regular" rate of acceleration (instead of flat-out acceleration which requires a red-line gear change).

[Syd118TSI]

Good to know that it will upchange if need be, but when there's only 100 km on the car you don't exactly want it to be revving too high especially when the engine is quite cool (having just departed my folks place).

It gives the feeling that the gear box is stuck as you hear the otherwise very quiet engine and it feels like you're not getting the normal responsiveness of the engine in accelerating.

[congti]

Curious to know if anyone else has this 'issue'. My Mk6 GTI with 6 speed DSG is a delight, except under one condition. If I start it up and put it into 'manual' mode and drive off the first upshift (from 1st to 2nd) is quite rough - like the clutch is being dropped too quickly. The upshift is at around 3,000 to 3,500 rpm and happens whether the car is relatively cold or whether it is at 80 to 90 degrees C (for example, when the car has been driven and then parked for 45 minutes).

It doesn't seem to matter how long I leave it in 1st gear. For example, when I leave my car park I put it in 1st and have to drive around the car park for quite some minutes and then have to wait at traffic lights for several more minutes. But when I do get the chance to shift up... it's rough.

This doesn't happen on subsequent gear changes from 1st to 2nd - it's only on the very first upshift. Nor does it happen in D mode.

Is this usual?

[Corey_R]

Lift your foot up a bit on the change. It happens because the gearbox oil hasn't heated up yet.

[MurphyTheElf]

Happens to me too. Figured it was just a cold gearbox because it's the only time it clunks. I tend to leave it in auto for a few minutes after starting out.