GTI Vs TDI

[Karlosovic]

This is going to make a lot of people laugh, I'm sure, but how similar in performance are the GTI and TDI Golfs ?

When i hear diesel i think "slow, economy car"... but someone was trying to convince me last night that these days your euro designed diesels are on a par with petrol engines.
He also claimed that most of the Le Mans cars are diesel now. I have no idea if this is true or not, but my first reaction was that - if true - this was because the better economy of a diesel saved them enough time on pit stops (Le Mans being a *long* race) to offset any performance losses.

I guess that's quite a few questions now, but if anyone wants to educate me I'd appreciate it

[Christopher]

Here is a decent thread about the GTD and some comparisons to the GTI. It looks at diesel compared to petrol engines, pros & cons.
hope this helps.

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showthread.php?t=41101&highlight=GTI+GTD

[team_v]

They are completely different, it's like comparing apples and oranges.

The diesel is capable enough to get you where you want to go and has enough torque to keep accelerating.
It is also meant for fuel economy but can be upgraded like Cogdoc has with his GT TDI.

The GTI is more rev happy and will get you there quicker and easier through the corners as it is lighter and more powerful (147kw.)
It is menat for performance/spirited driving and has a large tuning potential.


Google it for more in depth comparisons.
There is tonnes on youtube.

[gregozedobe]

Drive them both - they are a very different experience, then choose the one that suits you best. Our opinions on this shouldn't count for much at all, as it is your money that is paying for your car.

Just make sure that someone explains to you the different driving technique needed to get the best out of a diesel (hint: surf the torque, don't rev the bejeesus out of it like you can a petrol engine).

I currently have one of each (TDI and TFSI) and am happy with both.

[Corey_R]

This is going to make a lot of people laugh, I'm sure, but how similar in performance are the GTI and TDI Golfs ?

Just to clarify, the 'GTI' is a specific car with a single engine (what they're currently calling a 2L TSI), where as 'TDI' is an engine technology. TDI at VW encompasses turbo diesel engines from 1.2L all the way up to 5L V10's which powerful enough to tow a Boeing 747! Audi also have 6L V12 TDI's which are even more powerful.

When i hear diesel i think "slow, economy car"... but someone was trying to convince me last night that these days your euro designed diesels are on a par with petrol engines.

They would generally be correct. Compare many cars out there which have both a petrol and a turbo diesel model, Ford Focus, Mazda 3, Holden Cruze, Hyundai i30 etc etc. The diesel models are often as powerful (in terms of kw) and have vastly more torque (NM) than their petrol versions, and at the same time use less fuel. They are often as fast in acceleration too, although the experience and revs where the accleration occurs is different to the petrol.
HOWEVER - the situation with companies like VW and Audi and several other European companies is slightly different now. In these cases it's no longer a discussion of petrol vs turbo diesel, it's turbo petrol (and sometimes turbo/supercharged petrol) vs turbo diesel. Engines like the 1.4TSI 'Twincharger' really close the gap between performance and fuel consumption with the diesels, making it really a close competition with these cars. Some people will take the more 'revvy' and slightly quicker TSI and live with the higher fuel consumption, other people are more than happy with the more torque yet slightly slower TDI and revel in the better fuel economy.

But if you were looking at a Ford Focus for example which doesn't have a turbo petrol (excluding the more expensive performance oriented XR5 of course), the best performance is from the diesel model.

He also claimed that most of the Le Mans cars are diesel now. I have no idea if this is true or not, but my first reaction was that - if true - this was because the better economy of a diesel saved them enough time on pit stops (Le Mans being a *long* race) to offset any performance losses.

Most of the Le Mans cars aren't diesel yet, but diesels have won the last 4 years in a row. The Audi R10 TDI (2006-200 and most recently the Peugeot 908 HDi FAP.
I'm not sure of the exact regulations, but diesels are allowed higher capacity engines at Le Mans....

[Transporter]

Also it is worthwhile to mention that last 2 Dakar rallies were won by the diesel-powered cars, where this year VW Touareg TDI 2.5L took 1st, 2nd and 3rd place .

[Corey_R]

yeah... the VW's won the Dakar 1-2 last year as well.

[sabloke]

Diesels are great at converting fuel into fun. Sure, they're not as good for spirited driving because of the heavy lump at the front. They are a bit chatty when cold as well, but let me tell you, that torque wave is very addictive!
I've been driving an Astra Diesel for more than 3 years now and still loving it. With a bit of electronic help I got from UK, it puts out about 130 kW at the wheels and just over 400 Nm. In a straight line a GTI would struggle getting away. All this while getting high 6s fuel use as a daily drive. I like to drive it hard all the time, too. Love that torque!
Now, this is pretty much the maximum you can get out of a 4 pot Diesel today. You need a petrol turbo like the GTI to get more grunt. In other words, a tuned Diesel can easily catch up with a stock GTI, but then more grunt is only a remap away for the petrol hatch. That's why I can't wait to get a white R

[Transporter]

yeah... the VW's won the Dakar 1-2 last year as well.

Yeah... and it could be 1,2,3 if it wasn't a human error .

[Dubya]

They are completely different, it's like comparing apples and oranges.

The diesel is capable enough to get you where you want to go and has enough torque to keep accelerating.
It is also meant for fuel economy but can be upgraded like Cogdoc has with his GT TDI.

The GTI is more rev happy and will get you there quicker and easier through the corners as it is lighter and more powerful (147kw.)
It is menat for performance/spirited driving and has a large tuning potential.


Google it for more in depth comparisons.
There is tonnes on youtube.

I'd love to see a "real world" test where they had 2 adults and 2 children in each car and drove a hilly suburban course.

I'd be interested to know the different times to the top of a steep hill with a bit of a load on board.

The keener posters on this forum might want to get together for a hill climb!

[team_v]

I'd love to see a "real world" test where they had 2 adults and 2 children in each car and drove a hilly suburban course.

I'd be interested to know the different times to the top of a steep hill with a bit of a load on board.

The keener posters on this forum might want to get together for a hill climb!

I am just going form my test-drive in a diesel and petrol tiguan and my mates drive in a gti vs tdi golf.

Both had 3 adults and both the diesels felt sedate, capable but not outstanding.
The petrol versions just had power on tap and much better acceleration which would only increase with a chip.

[sabloke]

Hey, steep hill climb with load on board-that's exactly the kind of test you shouldn't try against a TDI in your GTI. That's what they're made for, that's where quick torque wins. Make yourself a favor and don't try it

[Dubya]

Hey, steep hill climb with load on board-that's exactly the kind of test you shouldn't try against a TDI in your GTI. That's what they're made for, that's where quick torque wins. Make yourself a favor and don't try it

That was my premise too.

[gregozedobe]

Hey, steep hill climb with load on board-that's exactly the kind of test you shouldn't try against a TDI in your GTI. That's what they're made for, that's where quick torque wins. Make yourself a favor and don't try it

The results might depend on whether the petrol is allowed to use it's full potential or not (ie run in a lower gear to give maximum accleration). It's useful to remember that the different engines have different rev ranges and often different speed capabilities in gears as well.

Accleration (ie increase in speed) is all about power to weight ratio, not torque to weight ratio. A stock Golf TDI doesn't have more power than a stock Golf GTI (and that relationship would remain the same after modifying both for more power).

Stipulate top gear only in the above scenario and a TDI will usually win , but ask me which one I want to be driving if I'm overtaking a B-double and suddenly need a lot more acceleration in a hurry ? I'd much rather go back a couple of gears in my TFSI and get power to accelerate rather than rely on TDI torque to get me out of trouble

Really it is "Horses for courses", and while TDIs have many advantages over a TSI/TFSI, similarly there a some things the TSI/TFSI engines do better. Choose the one you prefer and be happy, rather than trying to justify your choice by belittling the choices others make.

[Greg Roles]

All I know is several years ago we wouldn't be even contemplating this debate. "Performance" diesel, yeah right....which were my exact words to my dealer when he suggested I try the GT TDI....