Golf TDI

[jy01752684]

Hi all,

I am new to this forum. Skimming through this section, it seems most threads are about the GTI. GTI has always been my dream car, but it's a bit too pricy for me atm. Since VWA is doing stock take sales on the TDI model, I am considering to start my first golf with this model.

I only owned a 2nd hard corolla before and never bought a new car, so I am hoping all the nice people here can help answer a few of my questions.

I haven't visit a dealer yet, but my mind is definely with a manual TDI, either with no option fitted or one with the sport package(more ideal with the sport pack). And here comes my questions:

1. The RRP of a TDI with no options is 33,200. The currect stock sales exempts dealer delivery, stamp duty, CTP and rego. This sounds a good deal that you alrady save 4000+ without the need to negotiate. But is there more room for negotiation? Reading the threads here, even newly ordered cars can be negotiated down by 10% off drive away prices. So is asking for a 30k drive away price from dealers too much a mad idea?

2. How expensive is it to run a TDI when comparing to run a 118TSI? I did some research, there are complaints where the TDI engine comsumes lots of oil(not fuel, but engine oil). I mean if the 118TSI is doing the same sales, I will opted the TSI without 2nd thought. TDI has a $2700 premium over the TSI, and I really expect it to be compensated by a lower running cost

3. Are there good posts which can prepare me negotiate prices with dealers?

Your help is much appreciated!

Kenny

[Corey_R]

1. The RRP of a TDI with no options is 33,200. The currect stock sales exempts dealer delivery, stamp duty, CTP and rego. This sounds a good deal that you alrady save 4000+ without the need to negotiate. But is there more room for negotiation? Reading the threads here, even newly ordered cars can be negotiated down by 10% off drive away prices. So is asking for a 30k drive away price from dealers too much a mad idea?

A $33,200 Golf in NSW would cost ~$38,066 "drive away" or "on the roads". Now of that difference, $2995 is 'dealer delivery', and sure, it doesn't really cost your dealer THAT much to prepare the car for delivery, although there is labour involved. But the rest of the discount is being paid for by VWA. So they're basically doing your 'negotation for you'.

What I mean is, the 10% to 12% that people negotiate on their purchases is on the $38,066 price, not the $33,200 price. So if VWA/the dealer are paying the onroads for you, that means you're already getting a $4866 discount or 12.8% discount which is awesome!

You MIGHT be able to negotiate a bit, but if you went in and asked for $30k - I think you'd just be laughed at.

2. How expensive is it to run a TDI when comparing to run a 118TSI? I did some research, there are complaints where the TDI engine comsumes lots of oil(not fuel, but engine oil). I mean if the 118TSI is doing the same sales, I will opted the TSI without 2nd thought. TDI has a $2700 premium over the TSI, and I really expect it to be compensated by a lower running cost

The TDI has the same service intervals, and I believe they also have the same service costs, as the TSI (though I'm welcome to be corrected by TDI/TSI owners). I think basically the cost of ownership will be for insurance (being it's a turbo diesel instead of a turbo petrol) and fuel.

3. Are there good posts which can prepare me negotiate prices with dealers?

I think there are lots of different negotiation styles. But my advice is to know your product before you go to the dealer. Know the cost of the car, all the specs, the cost of all the options and any accessories that you're interested in and that they're likely to offer in the negotiation (tint, matts etc). If you can demonstrate that you already know what is being offered then they will know you're not mucking around and that they can't pull the wool over you

[jy01752684]

Thank you for replying Coreying.

Actually, the price list I got from BarloWorld is only listing Dealer delivery as $2195 for non-GTI golfs, or $37,233 drive away for a TDI manual.

What I am thinking is that if you can negotiate 10% off a newly ordered vehicle, they should offer some more incentives for a stock car? But anyway, I can try to use this arguement in my negotiation. + I am not impressed that VWA is not passing on the tariff reduction, which could be at least $1000 for an average golf.

In the end, it's no hurry for me to get a car. I will just negotiate with dealer happily then.

[mtaoz3]

My 2.0TDI has covered 22,000km. I had the oil changed at 7500 and 15000 but have not had to add oil outside of the service. I have just checked the oil now and after 7000km since the last service it is only just below the full mark. All engines use some oil, but my TDI seems to use no more than any other engine I've had, and a lot less than many.

[Corey_R]

Thank you for replying Coreying.

Actually, the price list I got from BarloWorld is only listing Dealer delivery as $2195 for non-GTI golfs, or $37,233 drive away for a TDI manual.

What I am thinking is that if you can negotiate 10% off a newly ordered vehicle, they should offer some more incentives for a stock car? But anyway, I can try to use this arguement in my negotiation. + I am not impressed that VWA is not passing on the tariff reduction, which could be at least $1000 for an average golf.

In the end, it's no hurry for me to get a car. I will just negotiate with dealer happily then.

I'm not really sure whether it makes much difference to the dealer whether it's a stock car or an ordered in car. I mean sure, some dealers will be desperate for an immediate sale to make up numbers, but then some customers are desperate for immediate delivery - so there are positives and negatives for both parties.

Anyway dealer delivery only being $2195 means you're saving is $4033, which is still 10.8% discount straight up. In otherwords, you are still smack bang in the middle of the discounts that members of this site are able to negotiate on their own without VWA already offering up to pay for the onroads.

Now, if your car had lots of options and was more like $42,000 drive away, or $37850 after VW has paid your onroads, then the $4150 discount you're getting up front then only means a 9.9% discount, which is STILL pretty good, but could be a bit better.

You understand what I'm trying to say? You have to look at this as a % on the overall deal, and 10.8% is a target that anyone would be happy with - so don't be upset if there is not much or no more negotiation to be had since you're looking at a car with no options.


As for the 'tariff reduction'. Many car manufacturers have not passed that on in direct price reductions. VWA have stated publically at the launch of the MK6 GTI that the tariff reduction was known at the time that VWA were negotiating the RRP's of the cars with VW head office in Germany. So the tariff was removed from the price of the cars when they were released, rather than having higher RRP prices up until the tariff reduction date and lowering them at that point.

[jy01752684]

Thanks guys.

Just drove a TDI manual today. Dont know if it's becauae I haven't driven a manual for a while(3 months only actually), it didn't feel very good. I think my impression with the 118TSI DSG combo was much better before. But I am sure if I spend sometime to get used to a golf clutch, I can drive it well. While the car is a bit noisy and skaking at stop, it was cruising at 90km/h at 1400rpm, which I think is impressive.

Another thing is the demo car's cloth interior somehow looks very old. I think it's a bit of both colour(dark) and dust. This makes me want to go leather, which I've always considered a rip off(same to other options).

Now I am kinda prefer a 118TSI. Another thread in the forum mentioned a squeaky sound when the super charger kicks in. Wondering if this is still a problem?

Hmm, spending 30k+ to buy a new car isn't an easy decision for me..

[Coaster]

There's many ways of looking at it. Some people just love the 'feel' of a TSI or TDI so they will choose that way. Or you can look at it in a clinical way; what is the main function of the car (long distance cruising, stop-start traffic, shuttle the kids around, etc). A TDI is great for cruising, except the extra cost is significant so you'd need to do a decent number of k's each year to justify the cost. You may as well get a manual in this situation as you wont change gears too much. Inner city stuff is best handled with a DSG to keep the hands free to focus on other things.

TDI's are apparently slightly costlier to maintain, although I haven't any experience on this, whilst TSI's will cost a little bit more in fuel.

So there's some food for thought, it really depends what will suit you best.

[mfl]

While I was discussing prices with the salesperson, (in Sydney) she showed me the service costs she had emailed a customer for their Golf diesel.

it was $340 for the 15k and 30k service. and $690 for the 45k service.

[Corey_R]

That's basically the same as the Golf TSI right?


Btw, I know that people always consider diesels to be great for cruising at highway speeds, but their strength is actually in economy 'under load', including acceleration (or carrying weight/towing). Usually there is a more pronounced difference between a petrol's urban and highway fuel consumption than there is with a diesel. But the TSI is actually so excellent that there is only 2.4L/100km difference in fuel consumption with both the petrol and diesel Golfs in manual form.
However, in DSG form, there is 3L/100km difference with the TSI and only 2.6L/100km difference with the TDI.
Diesels can commonly get away with less shifting due to their torque at low revs ability, so a manual TDI in the city may be more comfortable than a manual TSI in the city.

But it's all personal preference really

[jy01752684]

[QUOTE=Coaster;449714]A TDI is great for cruising, except the extra cost is significant so you'd need to do a decent number of k's each year to justify the cost. QUOTE]

Great point here. I can only drive prob 7000km a year, which really does not justify the extra cost of a diesel.

After test driving it, the only up from a diesel golf now is the on road cost saving it provides without the need to negotiate..

I will try to negotiate with the dealer tomorrow on the price of a TSI, hoping to get the same level discount they offering for the TDIs.

But can anyone advise if the noise intruduced by the super charger is still a problem please?

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showthread.php?t=31066

[nicandlance]

Thank you for replying Coreying.

Actually, the price list I got from BarloWorld is only listing Dealer delivery as $2195 for non-GTI golfs, or $37,233 drive away for a TDI manual.

What I am thinking is that if you can negotiate 10% off a newly ordered vehicle, they should offer some more incentives for a stock car? But anyway, I can try to use this arguement in my negotiation. + I am not impressed that VWA is not passing on the tariff reduction, which could be at least $1000 for an average golf.

In the end, it's no hurry for me to get a car. I will just negotiate with dealer happily then.

I think you you'd be very lucky to get a stock car as they seem to be snapped up faster than the dealer can get them. A majority of the cars appear to be ordered by customers with their options. VW are a lot different to holden etc, where loads of stock cars are put on the lot.
They might have several on the lot, but whether they are what you want or not are a different matter...

[Corey_R]

Yeah Nic, that is what my feeling was, but I guess it'd differ a bit dealer to dealer, but at least with the GTI's members here have been able to get larger discountson the order in cars rather than stock cars.

@jy01752684 - as for the squeak problems, you're best to ask within that thread itself. My observations are that the questions on the issue on these forums have quietened down, but I don't own a TSI or know anyone personally who has had this issue.

[jy01752684]

I think you you'd be very lucky to get a stock car as they seem to be snapped up faster than the dealer can get them.

I actually saw a stock TDI with 106KM on odometer in Barlo's car yard today. But now I dont think I will get a TDI anymroe.

And looking at so many people here being able to get the price down by 10%, it makes me feel ripped off if I cannot negotiate it down by this amount

[Corey_R]

But with those free onroads, the car is already over 10% off

[Greg Roles]

TDI's have very noticable turbo "lag", that is, off idle till about 1700rpm there's a big hole in the power. Mid range, it's a different story. If you aren't prepared to live with that and "drive around it" you'd hate a manual TDI. DSG was made for the TDI to make it more "car like". TDI's will have longer term problems due to their emission and EGR equipment, so if you plan to keep the car beyond 100k's, be prepared for some extra servicing options to clean it out and keep it running properly.

I think youi'll enjoy the smoother drive of a TSI far more, the supercharger makes for a grunty down low feel, and the economy if driven normally isn't far off a diesel. Then add to that the fact you have a much larger rev range ( 7000rpm vs 4500rpm in the diesel ) and you'll be doing a lot less gear changes. You certainly have to row a manual diesel around town. And diesel's don't exactly sound sexy, a female co-worker mentioned the other day that my car sounded "awful" coming down the road, but then she does drive a Honda Euro accord, and you can hardly tell if the engine is running, which isn't what I would call "great". I actually like the idea my girlie car sounds a bit more manly!

There's some good GT TSI's to be had on carsales.....