118TSI vs MK5 GTI vs everthing else - questions

[li21]

Hi all,

I only started looking into the 118TSI today after reading all these good reviews. I had no idea these were 1.4's till today. Sorry if these have been asked before.. I was tossing up between:
A used MK5 2.0 FSI or mk5 GTI ... Or now.. possibly a 118TSI

Just a few Q's:

- What does MDI stand for? I see people metion it everywhere? Something to do with MP3 Input?

- Is the World car of the year refering to the 118TSI?

- Is the 118TSI the MKV GT equivalent? Is it still a "sports" model like the MK5 GT ? Looks just like the other regular Golfs but with sweeter engine. Any sporting enhancements or gear? The way I see it, you still can't buy an optioned used MKV GT with the money you'd spend on a new 118TSI? (well maybe you can)
But the GTs have held their value well!

- Other than bigger rims, what are the non mechanical differences between 90 and 118 TSI?

- Handling and Suspension? 118TSI vs 90TSI vs MKV GT/GTI ?
Is that funky adaptive suspension gizmo an option or standard? Does it really work?

- Used MK5 GTI or 118TSI? Cant afford a MK6 GTI, but the 118TSI seems to have enough performance for me. Just doesn't looks that sporty i guess.
Whos driven or owned both and can comment on their preference?

[POLARBEAR666]

Downside of the mk6 is the gearbox is a lot weaker as they have slotted in an extra ratio without fitting a bigger box which = smaller weaker cogs.

The 6 speed DSG GT Diesels are MUCH better than the mk6 equivalent as they can take 380nm torque or more no problem. The new ones with 7 speed are limited to less torque as far as I know.

As far as Twinchargers go, the engines both go up to the same tune if you APR them BUT!!! I would not buy a newer twincharger as they ahve issues with water pump failing and squeeking noises and oher stuff that the original GT/GT sports never had and I think this is cost cutting by VW somewhere.
Also the 7 gears is not a good thing on a car that already has to deal with a turbo supercahrger changeover point. Can you say up down up down.

Suspension wise the GT's had crap soft stuff. mk6 will be better in handling and weight.

So basically mk5 = better gearbox, less changes to 100, more torque handling, Less ratio's is better for the twincharger, no reliability issues.
mk6 = lighter, newer, better fuel economy, better looking imho, reliability issues on twincharger in mk6

[Corey_R]

The new gearbox is 'weaker' but I'm not sure it's for the reason stated above. They've changed from a better but more expensive 'wet clutch' system in the 6 speed DSG to a dry clutch system in the 7 speed.

As noted, the suspension in the MK5 GT was nothing special. Neither really is the 118TSI, but it does have the option for the ACC (Active Chassis Control) if you need it to be sportier.

There have been some initial issues with water pumps on the MK6, but I wouldn't say that the MK6 has reliability issues and the MKV had none - because it did and does. Every car does.

To answer your questions:
- MDI = Media Device Interface. Yeah, using an adaptor cable you can plug in iPods, USB sticks and other various MP3 players.
- World Car Of The Year is talking about Golf in general, but I believe the 118TSI was the main car evaluated.
- The 118TSI isn't really the replacement for the GT. Thusfar there hasn't really been one. The GT didn't sell in great numbers, so I'm not sure they're going to bother with the MK6. Having said that, I personally would rather a brand new car than a 2nd hand one for the same money. The GT really wasn't _that_ special imo. I'd say that a 118TSI would be a much more attractive purchase if they are around the same cost.
- The 90TSI is a 'Trendline' car vs the 118TSI being a 'Comfortline'. So besides the 90TSI only being turbocharged and NOT supercharged, here are the differences:

Most people who purchase a 'Trendline' car will add the 'Comfort' package. For that you're talking $2200 which halves that price gap to a Comfortline car. The comfort package adds:
Allow Wheels 15" Wellington (instead of steel wheels with hubcabs!)
Automatic dimming interior rear-view mirror
Cruise Control
Dual Zone Climate Control Air Conditioning.
Foot well illumination
Gearshift knob in leather
Leather trimmed Multi-Function Steering wheel
Multi-Function Display Plus
Automatic Headlights with Coming/Leaving Home Function
Rain sensing Windscreen wipers

Other things you miss with the Trendline are:
Radiator Grille highlights in Chrome
Anti-theft wheel bolts
Rear seat centre armest with load through provision
'Black Pyramid' insert trim (instead of 'Titanium')
Rear Passenger Reading lights
Shopping Bag hooks (in boot)
Storage box in side lining (in boot)
12 volt socket (in boot)
Comfort Front seats
Height adjustment for front passenger seats
Front seat backrest storage pockets
'Sports Package' not available

- I can't compare the handling as I haven't driven all three cars. The GT didn't really have different suspension to a standard MKV Golf as far as I could tell when driving it, so I would say there probably isn't that much difference between it and the 118TSI. I would say that there is no difference in suspension between the 90TSI and 118TSI. As for the Adaptive Chassis Control, that's an option on any MK6 Golf and yes it really works - although opinions of its worthiness are varied. You should just test drive a 118TSI with and without it to judge for yourself. I personally love it.
The MK5 GTI obviously has better suspension (the same as the new MK6 GTI basically). So it's in a different category.
- If we're talking used MKV GT vs new 118TSI, for me that'd be a no brainer. New 118TSI for sure.
But since this specific question was the MKV GTI vs new 118TSI, that's harder.
From a pure driving standpoint, MKV GTI no question. It also has the better DSG and can be upgraded with performance parts quite extensively.
But then I personally think that the MK6 looks better externally, and the changes to the interior are even better! So it really depends how much weight you put into the different car owning requirements. I'm not really sure what any one else could say here which would matter, it is really up to you. Test drive both, evaluation the features and pros and cons of both, and decide what's best for you

[elisiX]

lol Corey you've done some research mate.

[li21]

lol Corey you've done some research mate.

Sure has!
Thanks Corey, thats given me a good lot to think about...

(really hate going to test drives... last time at my local VW they had me waiting for 45mins to drive a GTI .. i ended up walking out)

But yeh its down to outright performance vs the new looks and "green-ness" of the TSI, which i like

[Corey_R]

I personally love the new interior in the MK6. Being a MKV owner and a HUGE fan of the blue instrumentation in the MKV GTI I saw the pictures of the white MK6 instrumentation and thought ewww....

until I actually sat in a MK6 Golf and went for a drive and now it's the opposite. I think that the blue just looks so dated! hehe

But I could probably ignore that if you must have the GTI performance and handling

[elisiX]

To be honest - the MKV interior was terrible.

Quality was fine.. layout was fine.. and design was fine.. but the grey color looked horrible to me.

All black + red accents in the MKVI GTI are horn.

[pologti18t]

The MKV GT has a suspension tune between the 2L FSI comfortline model and the MKV GTI.

With the MKVI 118TSI you can option the Sports Pack with gives you the 17 inch alloys, sports seats and lowered/stiffer suspension similar in concept to the MKV Gt/Sport.

[Greg Roles]

Serious driving car, taught handling, sublime power and easy upgrade path = GTI

Cruisy comfort car, cheaper, get about, not trying to lap the local mountains = FSI

In between = GT. Depends on what you, and your partner / girlfriend / boyfriend ? can live with on a daily basis. Despite everything else being awesome, the GTI was just too harsh suspension wise for me and mine.

If you're going to mod it, then all that goes out the window!

I figure fuel is only going to get dearer and dearer, so I'd be looking at a TSI in your shoes personally in either version. Depends how long you plan to keep it too.

All top choices, hard to pick a bad one in the Golf lineup to be honest!

[logger]

Downside of the mk6 is the gearbox is a lot weaker as they have slotted in an extra ratio without fitting a bigger box which = smaller weaker cogs.

"..a lot weaker" & "smaller weaker cogs" that is all plain wrong. If you take a look you will see that the DSG7 is configured quite differently to the DSG6 with an additional output shaft. It is not a case of cramming in an extra ratio and making them smaller to fit, as you imply. As I understand it, the reason the DSG7 has a lower torque limit is to reduce temperature, minimise wear and maximise life of the dry clutches. It has little or noting to do with the gear train.

The 6 speed DSG GT Diesels are MUCH better than the mk6 equivalent as they can take 380nm torque or more no problem. The new ones with 7 speed are limited to less torque as far as I know.

How does a different torque limit translate to one gearbox being "Much better" ? The two gear boxes have different design criteria. Advantages of the dry clutch system include, improved fuel economy (-0.5l/100km), no oil cooler, less oil, lighter and no expensive service or mechatronic oil change requirements for life of car (in theory of course). The wet clutch DSG6 loses these benefits, but gains the ability to operate at higher torque due to oil cooling the clutches. Which by the way is quite possibly why the DSG7 is not effected by the current DSG recall. It does not have clutch oil temperature senders.

As far as Twinchargers go, the engines both go up to the same tune if you APR them BUT!!! I would not buy a newer twincharger as they ahve issues with water pump failing and squeeking noises and oher stuff that the original GT/GT sports never had and I think this is cost cutting by VW somewhere.

I havent heard of the water pumps failing so if it is indeed the case it is probably rare. But I am aware of them being changed in an attempt to fix the chirp/squeak from the attached supercharger clutch.

Also the 7 gears is not a good thing on a car that already has to deal with a turbo supercahrger changeover point. Can you say up down up down.

The supercharger assists the turbo and may or may not run very briefly up to 3500rpm depending on demand. It is all done very smoothly. Dunno what you mean about up down?
7 gears work perfectly well for me. No complaints. The extra ratio was added for two reasons.
1)Lower first gear to reduce clutch slip on start to increase dry clutch life, and
2)to allow a higher top gear ratio for greater fuel economy.
Personally I think 1st gear is a bit too low, but if by having it means I will never have to service the gearbox its not a bad compromise.

li21 when you decide which way to go remember both gearboxes have their merits.

[cktsi]

I test drove the MkV GTI manual only once. It has less body roll around chicanes & corners.

The engine didn't feel significantly much faster than the 118TSI (nor the Mk5 GT Sport either for that matter) when accelerating in suburban speeds. I'm sure in the higher freeway speeds it will pull stronger.

If you spend more time overtaking on freeways, the the GTI is the one for you.

If like me you are sadly stuck in 60 and 70 zones most of your life / drive multi-lane freeways that are dual carriage way & straight, I don't think you will necessarily get to use/experience the most out of the differential between the GTI and 118TSI.

I have thought about the same question, but in the end I wanted a new car that wasn't thrashed that I could spend a few $$$ extra (but still less than a brand new GTI or 2nd hand GTI for the equipment) and get nice things like a sunroof that I've always wanted.

So, it's up to your local driving conditions & whether you want the newest technology that really does use less fuel without the performance sacrifice or are happy with what MAY be a lower specced car but is a motoring icon that will give you grins in open road driving.

[cktsi]

Here's a post I made in vwvortex about the other minor differences between equal spec Mk5 and Mk6 that may be of interest