Golf 5 2.0L FSI engine problems - technical advice needed

[Rosemary]

Hi,

I need some advice - I know nothing about cars and this is my first post so please be patient with me!

Dinos22 posted a similar thread in April - I'm having the same types of problems with my Golf. The engine its stuttering at idle & I'm sure it's not as powerful as it should be.

It's taken the mechanics a while to diagnose what the problem is. So far they've done the following things:
1. Reset the computer
2. Replaced a loom of wires from the engine to the throttle
3. Replaced the spark plugs
4. Replaced the ignition coils

None of those things fixed the problem. Now on their fifth attempt they have told me they want to:
1. Turn off the FSI. They believe it is causing the car to stutter at idle, and apparently this is a known problem for early model Golfs like mine.
2. Replace the valve body in the transmission shift. They think it's a bit rough on down change.
3. Replace the temperature sensor.

I have no idea what any of these things are or what they do, but I'm a bit concerned about them turning off the FSI. Does anyone know what difference this is likely to make in terms of performance/fuel economy? Is is something they can/should replace, rather than just turn off?

Thanks

[Guy_H]

Is your mechanic a VW dealer? Because it sounds like they are clutching at straws (some of them expensive straws)

Certainly changing the temp sensor is a good idea, they are only ~ $50 & should be the first thing done.

Is your car under warranty?

And also where are you located? - We can try to put you onto a specialist in your area!

[Rosemary]

I'm in Adelaide. I bought the car second hand from a dealer. All the repairs have been done under warranty (3 month statutory warranty) so luckily I haven't had to pay for anything.

I've been in contact with the previous owner and it turns out she traded it in because of the same problems. The dealer were unable to fix it while she had it so she traded it in before her 3 year warranty ran out. It turns out they just sold it on to me without fixing it

I'm getting the impresssion that they are clutching at straws. Either they don't know what they're doing or this is just a one-off dodgy Golf (but I find that hard to believe.)

I'd like to take it somewhere else for a second opinion, but I don't want to have to pay for someone else to fix it when it's covered under warranty

However, I'd really like my car back so I may not have any choice. Do you know a specialist in Adelaide?

[Manaz]

For what it's worth - now that you've got the problems reported, my understanding is that they're obliged to fix them under warranty no matter how long it takes for them to do it - because the problems came up within the warranty period, and you reported them to the dealer.

So you shouldn't have to worry about having to pay for the repairs. Don't let the dealer try to get themselves out of being responsible for making good on the problems.

[Lams]

FSI is not a 'mode', it cannot be turned off. FSI is basically direct injection, if you turn off injection then you have no fuel, so I"m not sure what they are trying to say

A number of mkV cars have had aircon compressor failures, which can contribute to rough operation and losing power.

[Guy_H]

Hi Rosemary,

A good specialist is German Auto at melrose park - but if its still under warranty - keep on pressing them about it until you get it sorted.

Good luck!

[Rosemary]

You're right - they do have to keep fixing it under warranty until the problem is resolved, even if that's past the 3 months. They also have to extend the warranty for the amount of time they have the car (which adds up to about 6 weeks now I think.) I'm just frustrated cos they can't seem to find what the problem is. I'll have to be patient and let them keep trying, but for how long? The previous owner lost count of the number of times she took it back to them, with no success. I've taken it back 5 times in 3 months. At what point do you say enough is enough?

The whole FSI thing has me really confused. If it's not something that can be turned off then are they pulling my leg? Maybe it's more complicated and they just dumbed it down cos they knew I wouldn't understand what they're talking about anyway. I think I'll have to ring them back and get them to give me a bit more information. It's just really hard cos I know nothing about cars - they could tell me anything and I'd have no idea if it's true or not

[NickZ]

Turning the FSI off???

I think this dealer is playing a game with you. They have made money on a trade in because someone else who was desperate to get rid of the car probably traded it in at a crappy price and bought a new car from them. It is in their interest to do the cheaper options first and not spend a lot of time properly diagnosing the problem, as they would not be getting reimbursed from VWA for their time and parts.

If you don't know much about cars, try and find a friend or family (preferably male who will stand up to them and not take **** - an a$$hole in other words ) and demand they take it back, give you a loan car and not return the car until it is 100% fixed. If they can't fix it, give them hell until they do. I would accept a full refund if it is offered.

I think you have been very fair and understanding with them so far, and it looks like they have knowingly sold you a car with a problem that they cannot fix (otherwise they would have fixed it before they sold it to you!), so don't feel guilty about putting them under pressure.

Good luck!

[VW Convert]

The whole FSI thing has me really confused. If it's not something that can be turned off then are they pulling my leg? Maybe it's more complicated and they just dumbed it down cos they knew I wouldn't understand what they're talking about anyway. I think I'll have to ring them back and get them to give me a bit more information. It's just really hard cos I know nothing about cars - they could tell me anything and I'd have no idea if it's true or not

Hi Rosemary,

FSI stands for Fuel Stratified Injection, it describes the design of the engine, in a nutshell extremely high pressure fuel being injected directly into the combustion chamber. The link below describes specific design factors of the FSI engine.

http://www.audiworld.com/news/01/iaa/fsi/content.shtml

Finding that the previous owner had the same problem demonstrates that the dealer was aware there was a problem with the car prior to selling it to you. With the inconvenience and time loss you have suffered it is getting to the point that you may want to consider asking for a refund and buying another car. As it stands, the car is clearly defective and as such probably does not fit the criteria of being "of merchantable quality" as required under the Trade Practices Act and if the dealer refuses a refund I'd suggest your consumer affairs department (whatever it is called where you are) would be able to assist.

My 2 cents worth.

Cheers

George

[Mischa]

tell them you want a refund. give them a period of time to give you the refund by. tell them if htey dont refund you by that date that you and your lawyer will take them to court.

[Rosemary]

I'm not sure what to think. I believe they tried to play a game with me - as you point out they sold me a car that they knew was faulty. If they haven't been able to fix it til now they probably never will.

The previous owner did trade it in with them for a new car - a golf TDI - which she's been really happy with. I think the dealer took a gamble and tried to sell this car to some sucker who would think they were only obliged to repair it for the 3 months, and then it would be up to them to pay for repairs or sell it privately. I could be being overly synical, but the dealer's behaviour has been pretty bad and I wouldn't put it past them.

Having said that, after kicking up a stink during their second attempt to fix it they have been much more 'helpful' (the fact that the company I work for was in the process of replacing its fleet with VWs, and my folks threatened to pull out of a contract they'd signed for a new Passat probably had more to do with their change of attitude - they stood to lose quite a few sales if I wasn't kept happy.)

They have provided me with loan cars each time (the latest is a Golf 2.0L TDI - very nice indeed ) I think they've realised that, even though I know nothing about cars, I DO know what my rights are. They took a gamble and it backfired - big time. When it still wasn't fixed after their 4th go & they said they 'weren't sure what else they could do' I said I was going to get a second opinion and re-assess my options. They did a 180 and begged me to let them have another go. I think I have them scared - they did the wrong thing and they don't want to get caught.

I've spoken to the office of consumer and business affairs & they've advised me that I'm entitled to a refund. It might end up being my best option, but I still love this car and 2nd hand Golfs are hard to come by in Adelaide

I think it's time I stopped being patient and started putting a whole lot more pressure on them...

[blutopless2]

I think it's time I stopped being patient and started putting a whole lot more pressure on them...

i totally agree... enough is enough.. they knew the car was dodgy when they sold it to you. they know its history with the previous owner.
They have had enough opportunity to fix it so obviously dont know what it is or what they are doing.

I would ask for a full refund or a replacement car of the same year/model/options etc.
Hope it works out for you.

[VW Convert]

I've spoken to the office of consumer and business affairs & they've advised me that I'm entitled to a refund. It might end up being my best option, but I still love this car and 2nd hand Golfs are hard to come by in Adelaide
...

Maybe give them one more go but on the basis that if they are unsuccesful you would be expecting a refund. As far as 2nd hand Golfs being hard to find, this may be true but I've always lived by the rule that another one will turn up sooner or later.

I think it's time I stopped being patient and started putting a whole lot more pressure on them...

Agree 100% make them realise that your patience is exhausted and you know your rights.

Cheers

George

[Rosemary]

I just spoke to the service manager - apparently my car will be ready this afternoon. I'll be glad to have it back but I don't believe it really will be fixed (why should this time be any different?)

I asked him what he meant about turning off the FSI, and if it's not working properly then why don't they replace it? He said that he must not have explained it to me properly.

Now he's telling me there is nothing wrong with it: the FSIs on early '04 models like mine cause the car/engine to stutter at idle as it turns on & off. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it, but some people don't like the feel of it. So, he says they just tell the computer not to do it.

Does this sound right to any of you? It sure doesn't to me. To start with, the stutter isn't consistent. It can be slow, fast, soft or hard, or any combination. If it was 'normal' then wouldn't it be the same every time? Or would it depend on engine temp etc?

I've driven a 1.6L Golf ('06 or '07 model I think) and it was a really smooth ride (not much oomph, but certainly no stuttering at idle.) Does anyone know if they should feel different at idle? I feel like they're trying to trick me.

I'll let you know how it drives when I get it back.

[blutopless2]

i think they are full of it... if it was "normal" then why have they been trying to fix it at all??? they would've told you right from the start its normal and to go away.
The engine should be smooth no matter what.. cold or up at running temps my polo and jetta both run smooth as... at cold the idle will be slightly higher in revs but after a few minutes it should drop to normal speed. roughness etc should not be there at all.
"tell the computer not to do it" ????? what the???? you cant turn it on or off. otherwise ask him why they havent turned it off if that will fix it?? lol
hope they have fixed it.