difference between the 2.0 TDI's (comfort vs sport)

[eternaloptimist]

Ah yeah new injectors - I read a VW technical bulletin and they mentioned 'piezo' injectors rather than standard IIRC.

(Ontop of the different turbo + tune)

Chipped 103kw = 125kw

Chipped 125kw = 160kw+

I wish the tuners picked another number, 124 or 126 to avoid the confusion.

This is what I did with my tdi 2.0 Jetta. Powerchip ecu remap. Goes well Is manual and the kick in 2nd gear is extraordinary. Am still running the car in (has done a massive 240 km so far...)

[lunar1]

Well sometimes it pays to get off yer bum and do some old fashioned talking in person... after seeing a lot of interesting responses, but nothing satisfactory in terms of what I was actually asking...

Paid the folks at volkspower a visit today and will be testing out an identical car to my own that had the chip upgrade - try before you buy philosophy. quite nice

And to anyone who is interestered...the software upgrade give the biggest bang for the buck

which begs the question, why is it so expensive to upgrade software when you download most anything these days

PM me if you have any ideas..

Cheers

[ted]

If there is an increase in compression, and different injectors, makes my otehr statement pretty much wrong. although there would still be a different map, turns out it's not the only thing!

Oh well. happy to be wrong.

VW specs for Golf say the 103kW engine has compression ratio of 18:1 - the 125kW 18.5:1.

http://www.volkswagen.com.au/vwcms_publish/vwcms/master_public/virtualmaster/en_au/New_Cars/golf/data_facts/information_prices.html

[gregozedobe]

which begs the question, why is it so expensive to upgrade software when you download most anything these days ?

The usual blah blah from the suppliers is "you have to pay for development work, testing, adaptation to local conditions, maintaining a local presence, marketing, support for remaps after VWA remaps etc etc etc."

My opinion is that it is mainly down to the desire to maximise profit , and to a lesser extent market forces (competition, supply, demand, customer knowledge). If you want to upset yourself have a look at the US prices for Golf remaps and compare them with what we pay in Oz (and no, I don't believe there are big differences between the remaps for the two countries).

If one of the popular Oz suppliers suddenly decided to drop their price for a remap to $499 you can bet all the others would suddenly drop their prices too or they would lose nearly all their sales (and once you have developed the software $499 is way better than $0.00 ).

We are too small a market, and there isn't much real competition here in Oz.

[lunar1]

The usual blah blah from the suppliers is "you have to pay for development work, testing, adaptation to local conditions, maintaining a local presence, marketing, support for remaps after VWA remaps etc etc etc."

My opinion is that it is mainly down to the desire to maximise profit , and to a lesser extent market forces (competition, supply, demand, customer knowledge). If you want to upset yourself have a look at the US prices for Golf remaps and compare them with what we pay in Oz (and no, I don't believe there are big differences between the remaps for the two countries).

If one of the popular Oz suppliers suddenly decided to drop their price for a remap to $499 you can bet all the others would suddenly drop their prices too or they would lose nearly all their sales (and once you have developed the software $499 is way better than $0.00 ).

We are too small a market, and there isn't much real competition here in Oz.

Hey Grego - thanks for the insight. Never realized or thought about how much they might be in the U.S - i figured it was a global screwing and not just an Aussie inflation thing

Is the software the kind of thing you could buy in the U.S and take back / ship back / electronically send here for use?

Admittinglly I'm a bit naive as to how this chip upgrade/enhancement process works. But at a high level it sounds like all you need is a device to interface with the onboard computer, and a new string of code to upload.

[Mischa]

Hey Grego - thanks for the insight. Never realized or thought about how much they might be in the U.S - i figured it was a global screwing and not just an Aussie inflation thing

Is the software the kind of thing you could buy in the U.S and take back / ship back / electronically send here for use?

Admittinglly I'm a bit naive as to how this chip upgrade/enhancement process works. But at a high level it sounds like all you need is a device to interface with the onboard computer, and a new string of code to upload.

dont use US ones their cars have small differences plus its for a LHD lol. afaik you can use UK ones?? but im not sure

[drmvwgmad]

Im a little confused. Ive just bought a new 103kw pacific, and while at the dealers asked about chipping, tweaking for more sting, and the reply was absolutely DO NOT fiddle, the clutch cant handle any more. I fairly grilled the bloke with questions about all sorts of tech stuff, to see if he knew what he was on about, and he appeared full bottle. ?????

[gregozedobe]

DSG or manual gearbox ? Doesn't really matter as either way you will get pretty good reassurances from all the remappers that the clutch/es will easily cope with more torque and power.

[nayfen]

i have 103kw c/line tdi that has the oettinger 125kw upgrade. Comes with drivetrain warranty. Great power increases. still avg 800-1000km per tank. no problems with the clutches, DSG. there are a few cars from factory that run the same gearbox with a bit more power running through them

[jayjay]

i thought we had a big discussion about this a while back? and someone had found a whole bunch of official vw info on the head and block specs? like the 125kw gt sport version has higher flow injectors, bigger turbo, more cooling ducts in the block and different internals etc...?

[Greg Roles]

Yeah who was that guy? Sounds like a real nerd to me.

According to the Erwin Service Training Programme 368:

New unit injector with piezo-electric valve and pressure of 2200 bar
Different pistons
New ceramic glow plugs
CTC toothed belt sprocket on the crank - somewhat oval drive sprocket reduces forces on the cams, and reduces vibrations.
Improved oil separation
Re-engineered turbocharger with VNT travel feedback
Lightened and forged crank
Different head gasket, totally redesigned head cooling.
Diesel Particulate filter
Improved EGR cooling

And a few selected quotes:

Due to the increase in output, the crankshaft is upgraded to a reinforced, forged unit
Instead of the usual 8 counterweights, only four have been used - lower weight - quicker revs - less vibes.

Thanks to the omission of the valve pockets on the top of the pistons, the chamber volume has been reduced ( higher compression ) and swirl generation in the chamber has been improved. Better mixtures are achieved. Flatter valve heads and modified valve seats are used to counter the lack of valve pockets on the pistons.

The cylinder head has been completely redesigned to improve thermal dissipation. Annular ports around the injector orifice are new. Regions around the injectors and exhaust ports, which are exposed to higher thermal strain due to the 125kw output, are relieved.

All new cylinder head gasket, to reduce cylinder head and bore distortion.

A five stage oil separation mechanism in the cylinder head cover including a complex cyclone swirl seperator. This has enabled oil retention to be improved.

Intake manifold has integrated swirl flaps, the secondary inlets are closed at lower demand situations, but not sure this is unique to the 125kw. Both are open at higher revs for better volumetric efficiency - filling of the cylinders.

Re-engineered turbo, bigger size and inlet and exhaust impellers designed to give quicker charge buildup, higher gas throughput and better efficiency. The VNT adjustment has a more accurate sensor that allows a much finer control of the VNT "vanes".

The Exhaust gas recirculation cooler is a much larger and straight through unit over the basic 103kw U-bend design. Far more efficient at cooling introduced exhaust gas for lower NO emissions, but expected with higher exhaust temps from the higher output.

Then of course there is the DPF filter. Amazing that such an increase is possible with such a restriction in the exhaust. THAT is a whole 'nother post, and a whole study module on it's own.

In short, if I had a 103 and I was upping it, I'd also look at increasing the thermal load handling of the engine - cooling, intercooling etc etc. There's been a few TDI's shear off the impeller now, and I have to wonder if the turbo is simply getting too hot in a situation where it hasn't been engineered to handle it.

Certainly all my efforts are in the area of cooling at the moment.

[comfortline]

excellent post greg.

consider www.kermatdi.com

Getting a PD140 BKD (103kw 2.0 tdi) to 125 is easy. but the little vnt 15 is the limiting factor.

and as for the DSG clutches...most mappers will take it to 380 nm, but in reality they'll take a fair bit more. The 02G/02E boxes were the first dsg's on the market and were over engineered so hey didn't get major failures.

[mikinoz]

Sportline are better - period!