1.4 TSI Gt Sport Timing Chain "jump" - estimated cost $3000

[MariusGT]

so a little background-

* 2nd owner, bought 10months old with 3,500kms on clock (lets call that brand new/dealer demo)
* serviced regularly (mostly at VW but not all) and meticulously maintained.
* 3 months ago had my first real issue outside of warranty - coil pack failure. cost of repair $750 at VW service center.

19th december - stalled (first EVER, DSG stalling??!!) when restart very rough idle and quickly pulled over.
car will not start.
towed to VW - called to let me know they THINK the timing chain has jumped on a backfire (stall).

Strip down and repair estimated cost approx $1000 for parts, $1500/2000 labour.

This is my 3rd VW, and the newest i have owned - and in a 4 month period has become the most unreliable and expensive to maintain/repair.

Awaiting response from VW Australia on a "good will" contribution to repair, not holding my breath.

Afraid my love affair with VW is coming to an end... toyota/honda/mazda might be on the cards for my next car.

[Transporter]

So, that's just a speculation from the dealer, at least for now, yeah?

Any modifications? Remap?

[Jmac]

Make sure they explain it clearly mate, there has been a couple of chain issues with this engine. Shame to hear you having ots of dramaa with it . Was there any other warnings before hand?? ie noisy chain on start up?? shift lights on the dash solid?? Also there has been a couple engine let go so make sure what they say is wrong i made really clear
Cheers
Jmac

[grtuned]

1.4 TSI Gt Sport Timing Chain "jump" - estimated cost $3000

3,500km is that right??
With that amount if km's who cares if you are the 17th owner of the vehicle this should WTY!!!!! But for your info you may pay a little extra servicing at a dealerships but issues like this would be no issue as everything is recorded and your guaranteed that all servicing items including oil is VW approved so any argument is ended straight away and VW may come to the table with an offer to fix 100% or at a certain percentage

[MariusGT]

Transporter: speculation yes - they rang for an authority to go ahead and carry out work. they THINK the timing chain has 'jumped' but wont know for sure until they strip down and get a better look. No mods/remap.

Jmac: what do you mean make sure they explain clearly? what chain issues has this engine had? No other signs, no rough running (aside from a couple months back but that was coil pack failure) or warning lamps - just pop, stall (backfire), restart rough running, stop. won't start again... now towed and at VW centre.

grtuned: sorry - it HAD 3500 when i bought it in 2009. now has 70k.

i used to own a MK4 golf that i sold at 120k and all that went wrong with that was AC compressor failure.
wife drives a 1998 polo 1.6 auto that has done 115k and has run like a dream for 2 years now (touch wood).
most current car 2008 GT Sport - likely to be my last unfortunately.

[Jmac]

They have had a couple of chain failures, hydralic tensioner failures, piston and piston ring problems. Cracked pistons. Now this is only a few out of the thousands out there, what i meant by ask them to explain clearly was to make sure you are armed with info when they try to spin a yarn. Ask them to be clear in explaining what the fault was and how it happened, because how you expalin it there is the car was running then popped and stalled then no start, not u stalling it causing the fault if that makes sense. The pop would have been a backfire. If it has in fact jumped some timing its valve timing and could cause the valves to strike the pistons which could be messy. Hopefully they find a common fault and gets recognised for a good chunk of goodwill.
Good luck
Jmac

[idaho]

So they have stripped it down?
And think it jumped the chain? They would have been able to tell exactly whether all the cam timing marks were aligned correctly or not before stripping the engine down.
What parts are supposedly damaged and are in the $1000 quote for parts?

[MariusGT]

Ah ok- I understand your point Jmac. Once I have a clear answer from VW aust on their action (or lack) I will then start emailing the dealer and getting it in writing...

Idaho- no strip down yet. Until I authorise which I won't do until VW aust get back to me. Parts for an estimated $1000? Good question, I'll be sure to ask.

[MariusGT]

update - After several calls have received an email with a better idea of $$ and work to be done:

"In regards to the engine work on the vehicle with parts including timing chain,tensioner,oil pipes,gaskets and engine oil etc the total is $670.Labour cost is $1232.Because the engine is not starting we will need to set the timing up(replace timing chain and tensioner) but cannot guarantee if this will fix the problem.There is a possibility that it could have a bent valve in the head from the timing being out.Therefore this is a estimate only and is subject to change if further faults found."

[Jmac]

Woulnt have tojump far to strike a valve mate. Assuming its stripped down, is there a mention of what has failed yet? sub 100k and a chain letting go is pretty bad, have seen a couple but its still bad. Surely that would call for some goodwill of somesort. Most likely tensioner. Sounds like they have verified it has jumped, how far is the question.
Good luck
Jmac

[MariusGT]

yep - a mate said the same thing.. have the ball rolling w VW australia on a goodwill claim. pretty shattered that a car (and manufacturer) i have raved about has let go so badly in the last 3/4 months. bad luck? maybe... and i hate to keep repeating this (especially here!!) but it's VERY unlikely i'll buy VW again

- this is my 3rd vee dub (dad's owned 2. learnt to drive w a classic beetle. mum's owned 1, sister 1), i'm kinda young and have a few cars left in me - plus all the word of mouth to family and friends... surely stuff like this hurts? or all their sharp advertising just washes the negative stuff away.... or bad luck.

[MariusGT]

update - the timing chain re-tensioned/replaced.

Engine starts but runs rough. Taking head off to inspect internals.

[MariusGT]

update - was informed early this week that engine was out of the car and stripped down.
found to be "gummed up".
VW aust technical response for repair: replace pistons and ignition.

VW Mona Vale confirmed late this afternoon that it had a response from VW Aust of a "good will" contribution:

VW to pay 50% parts and 70% labour.
VWMV have requested their warranty clerk to resubmit the claim as they believe "they could get more" and that resubmitting was quite common and the amount would NOT decrease and would "very likely" increase.

I asked for a rough estimate of costing (parts and labour) to date and required to complete. "havn't even begun to tally it up but i'll let you know on monday/tuesday.

I've also requested a loan car for next week as i am seriously struggling with 1 car (driving mrs to work, dropping little fella at daycare/inlaws and doing my work) - my case manager is trying pretty hard to secure one for me.

Summary:
It's not over yet, BUT so far i have VERY mixed feeling about this.
The response from VW Aust is good and i am pleased that they are contributing heavily to the repair. HOWEVER this is still going to cost me a bomb and for the age/kms/condition/maintenance of the car i still feel the level of failure and extent of damage is unacceptable.

All in all - i was prepared for a worse result from VW Aust so that's good. I would say to anyone going down the "good will" submission path for out of warranty repairs that being polite, civil and professional at ALL times with both your service center and case manager no matter how frustrating.... helps. i have been on the verge of losing my mind a couple of times but am sure it would have been detrimental to my situation.

[Jmac]

Yep that makes sense mate, you sound like a good guy and looks like they have seen that. Sounds like the tensioner let go and it jumped then, so surprised it didnt skelp a valve, maybe it did and they are replcing it and dont want to say it you may never know. Im sure it would have but at least you should have it back all good and well with whatll be superceded parts no doubt and hope you may have many more ks of driving. Hope it all goes well money wise.
Cheers
Jmac

[MariusGT]

Picked up car today.
Basic breakdown of work carried out:
* Remove and refit engine side cover to find engine timing chain had skipped teeth.
* replaced engine timing chain and chain tensioner, reassemble together and check for vehicle starting.
* Vehicle starting but rough running.
* Checked compression and found comp low cyl 1 & 3.
* Remove engine assembly from vehicle, dismantle to find piston rings carboned up.
* Replaced pistons and send head away for cleaning and replacement of exhaust guides.
* reassemble engine and check, vehicle idle rough, found fuel pressure low.
* replaced all 4 injectors, retest, pressure ok
* reset basic settings carried out road test and check. Ok

List of parts (exactly as listed but without part numbers):
Gasket set x 3
Gasket x 2
Chain x 1
Seal x 1
Gasket x 1
Bolt, connecting rod x 8
Seal x 1
Gasket x 4
Seal, valve stem x16
Washer x4
Engine oil 5w/40 x 5
Strainer x1
Crank seal x2
Gasket x1
Seal x2
sealant x2
Gasket x1
Gasket x4
Gasket x1
Gasket x1
Gasket x1
Spark plug x 1
Injector x4
Silicone, adhesive sealant x 2
Piston x4
Tensioner x1
Bolt x10

Customer contribution 50% parts 30%labour grand total of $2,893.00 inc GST.


I questioned my case manager at VW Aust in regard to the core mechanical fault/failure that resulted in the amount of work and $$$ required to get the car back on road. Asking if there was ANY way I could have prevented it from happening (keeping in mind the car was serviced regularly and well looked after AND was at a VW service centre a matter of weeks before the failure with a full diagnostic test to determine a coil pack failure)... The reply was "nothing"

I asked the foreman from VW who was in charge of my car over the last 4 weeks and he said the same thing. THERE IS NO WAY TO AVOID IT HAPPENING.

I wish I had an inkling of our conversation (while road testing BEFORE paying) because I would have done a voice recording and handed it to the press. Went a little something like this (I am paraphrasing!):
"There are fundamental flaws in the design... It's a pretty big stuff up from VW... Probably the main reason for dropping the engine from line up of mark VII. We are replacing parts of that engine that should be good for 200k at 50k. I don't drive a VW. I totally understand why you wouldn't buy another VW. Neither would I"

That is a workshop foreman... He was actually a nice guy and just trying to be honest but it pisses me off.

Also my case manager at VW Aust mentioned my case was a level3 and went straight to German HQ who signed off on the goodwill compensation.

Now then. I'll be off to Toyota/Mazda/Honda for my replacement (devastated... Driving home today I was so pissed and also pretty sad... I really did enjoy owning this car until 3 months ago.. Then off a cliff the love went!!)