Tiptronic transmission thumping when selecting gears when cold

[Bayman]

Hi all,

I was hoping someone could advise the best way to go here with a Golf V 2006 model FSI with a 6 speed Tiptronic transmission that has suddenly begun thumping (surging) into gear when selecting gears when cold. Eg Park to R, or D.

The oil has never been changed but I now read VWA recommend a change at 60,000kms. Fortunately the car has been servided at a VW dealer all its life and just missed the update on the trans oil change but we have Allianz extended warranty valid on it. The dealer says they will most likely remove the transmission from the car and we will be without the car for 2 weeks!!!. The car drives ok when warm (after 3 mins) so I wonder if a valve is sticking, either way sounds bad. The Golf has done 79,0000kms.

Has anyone been down this path and we also have a Tiguan with the same transmission so I think I will be getting the oil replaced next service well before their lifetime sealed unit of 60,000kms.

Thanks in anticipation!!

Bayman

[jessv3]

Has anyone been down this path and we also have a Tiguan with the same transmission so I think I will be getting the oil replaced next service well before their lifetime sealed unit of 60,000kms.

Bayman

Are you sure your Tiguan has the same tranny? The MKV 2.0 fsi has a conventional 6spd Automatic where as I thought all tiguans have a DSG box which is very different.

Also where did your allianz warranty come from? I personally wouldn't trust any warranty but a vw extended, a lot of those 3rd party extended warranties are as worthless as the paper they are written on when it comes to claim time.

[thezoneR32]

The Allianz warranty IS the VW extended warranty.

Yes I have been down this path. Mine was a DSG tho, just had a rattle and they sent it to Sydney for a full rebuild. Cost Allianz $18k! Probably last forever now and now Im gonna sell it.

Oh and try about 6 weeks for a rebuild!

[Bayman]

The Allianz warranty IS the VW extended warranty.

Yes I have been down this path. Mine was a DSG tho, just had a rattle and they sent it to Sydney for a full rebuild. Cost Allianz $18k! Probably last forever now and now Im gonna sell it.

Oh and try about 6 weeks for a rebuild!

Yes it is an Allianz, confirm with them direct, they answer the 1300 phone as VW insurance.
Tiguan has Tiptronic in MY09 & MY10 I think MY11 was when they went to DSG.

Thanks

---------- Post added 11-02-2012 at 12:17 AM ---------- Previous post was 10-02-2012 at 06:07 PM ----------

I have found what seems to be my issue here:

If shifting is erratic, slow, or harsh, if your car is fuel injected, you probably have shift solenoids. The valves in these solenoids may be sticking. A good place to start is to service the transmission, and add a good shift conditioner. If it doesn't solve the problem, you may need to replace the shift solenoids. The same holds true for older transmissions. The valves may be sticking in the valve body or governor. If so, it's service, and/or replace the valve body and governor. It's also worth mentioning that built into the transmission, to help cushion the shifts are accumulators. These are spring loaded dampeners. If they fail, the transmission will likely "slam" into gear. It will be a quick, neck-breaking shift, not harsh or delayed.

Now would anyone care to comment on what is the main reason for failure here, oil too old? filter clogged? bad design?

And obviously the cost and work required to fix it. Extended warranty hopefully will pay for it all.

Bayman

[thezoneR32]

Theres no point trying to trouble shoot the trans (if its a dsg) they are a sealed unit. If you have dodgy gear changes its either the mechatronics unit or the dsg and either way they just replace them at huge cost. Its a well known fact that the dsg has had issues, in some countries like the US it has had full recalls.

VW have been known to skirt around the issue except when its out of factory warranty and Allianz has to foot the bill, then they just fix it and charge allianz.

[Bayman]

Theres no point trying to trouble shoot the trans (if its a dsg) they are a sealed unit. If you have dodgy gear changes its either the mechatronics unit or the dsg and either way they just replace them at huge cost. Its a well known fact that the dsg has had issues, in some countries like the US it has had full recalls.

VW have been known to skirt around the issue except when its out of factory warranty and Allianz has to foot the bill, then they just fix it and charge allianz.

I am just trying to ascertain what may have gone wrong and what could have avoided the gearbox crashing. The Golf V has a Tiptronic Slushbox NOT a DSG. I know the DSGs can be troublesome. My point of issue was that VWA changed the servicing intervals of these gearboxes about 12 months ago to include a oil & filter change at 60,000kms. Our dealer never informed us nor did they suggest to do it when the car was last at the dealer for rear brakes o/haul. The Golf has nearly 80,000kms on it.

As there are millions if these Golf Tiptronic autos around, I just wonder how reliable they are and thank goodness we took out the extended warranty. I am forming the opinion that owning any VW car without a current warranty or extended warranty is just too much financial risk, especially considering the value of a vehicle over 6 years old and the advantage to buy a newer vehicle as aginst the rip off prices for any repairs. Sort of defeats owning a diesel and their longevity.

Thanks for the heads up on Allianz and there attitude to gear box repairs.

Car goes in Monday for assessing the problem, claim with Allianz.

Bayman

[Umai Naa!!]

The automatic transmission (Non-DSG) can be opened up and repaired. They're pretty much a conventional auto.

I have replaced the valve body in one in the past (Around $3,000, but way cheaper than a complete transmission). Bare in mind, this one had reletively clean, uncontaminated oil. If there's swarf/metal shavings in the oil, the transmission will need to be replaced.

I would say it will need a valve body in your case.

[Bayman]

The automatic transmission (Non-DSG) can be opened up and repaired. They're pretty much a conventional auto.

I have replaced the valve body in one in the past (Around $3,000, but way cheaper than a complete transmission). Bare in mind, this one had reletively clean, uncontaminated oil. If there's swarf/metal shavings in the oil, the transmission will need to be replaced.

I would say it will need a valve body in your case.

Thanks for that info, the dealer says they will remove the auto box and take it to their auto tx repair centre off site (Bayford Motor Group) not sure if it outsourced repair. Service manager at Sth Yarra VW suggested it might be a valve body. I hope to get some feedback on the condition of the auto tranny. Is it common for these to play up at 80,000kms? I am wondering whether to have my tx oil replaced at next service but 60,000km is only 18,000kms away so I figure a change at 30,000km in hindsight might have been the right thing to do, bar the cost of it.

So can the valve body be replaced without removing the whole tranny from the vehicle?

Thanks,
Bayman

[Umai Naa!!]

The Tiguan gets it's non-DSG oil change at 60,000klms. It has been suggested that these are a little more robust than the previous incarnations.

The one I repaired had 130,000klms on it, from memory.

I don't understand why your dealership needs to remove the transmission, only to send it away for repairs. The job can be done quite easily in the car, in only a couple of hours.

I'd shop around.

[Bayman]

The Tiguan gets it's non-DSG oil change at 60,000klms. It has been suggested that these are a little more robust than the previous incarnations.

The one I repaired had 130,000klms on it, from memory.

I don't understand why your dealership needs to remove the transmission, only to send it away for repairs. The job can be done quite easily in the car, in only a couple of hours.

I'd shop around.

Thanks for the advice. I'll question them more, this is what a service advisor told us on Friday.
So do you reckon the average Dealer VW technician is capable of diagnosing and fixing a valve body? If it takes 2 hours the parts cost must be horrendous for a $3000 job. Allianz will be footing the bill so they won't want excessive repairs. Is it fair to say most auto problems the dealers handle are straight auto swaps with new transmissions, any tinkering is left for auto specialists (ourtsourced). I'll talk to the service manager in the morning and pin him down on exactly what they might do.

Bayman

[Umai Naa!!]

Definately question their plan of attack.

Basically, what I've outlined in a previous post is exactly what I've been told by VW themselves in regards to a very similar problem.

In saying that, if they feel it's necessary to go down their chosen path for this, then maybe some sort of courtesy car is in order while yours is being repaired. It is very common to outsource component repairs these days. Mainly because the technicians that were capable of performing major repair work have long left the industry, or have gone to work for specialist repairers. Most newly-built dealerships aren't set up to do engines, transmissions, etc these days anyway.

[Bayman]

Golf is having transmission rebuilt at some horrendous cost. Allianz will pay TG. Just amazed at what a terrible reliability to fail at 80,000kms but I see this slush box is failing quite bad from what is read on the web. Also VWA must realise this seeing they changed the service interval to replace the oil at 60,000kms. This one is up for sale before ext warranty runs out and hopefully we can get a new Golf Wagon to replace it. If Golf is such a big seller then I would like to see the failure rate of these gear boxes. My Japanese gear boxes in other makes never let me down, mind you they were serviceable. This sealed for life is fine except they never tell you what the expected life period is...mmmh? Now to put my hard earned dollars on a DSG and hope it is OK. Anyone know the reliability of the 6sp DSG vs 7 sp DSG so far?

Bayman

[Jmac]

Sealed for life?? sealed till warranty out i reckon. The 09G is in a fair amount of Vw applications and after 80ks its on borrowed time. Generally just fitting a valve body isnt the fix, yeah it might be at the time but the failed valve body would have been causing clutch slip wear on hubs and all sorts of other dramas. In my experience it takes an over haul and new valve body to fix coming in around $7500 odds. Although an earlier service may lengthen its life i still dont think the valve body is that great a design.
On the T5 transporter ive diagnosed a couple of their 09G variant which is 09K. They have similar issues but latest on was flaring badly between 2nd and 3rd, turned out the hub had a hairline crack!! Mind you this van had been fairly punished

Jmac

[Bayman]

. In my experience it takes an over haul and new valve body to fix coming in around $7500 odds. Although an earlier service may lengthen its life i still dont think the valve body is that great a design.

Jmac

Yes, I agree Jmac. There are thousands of these Golf V's around so by now Allianz must have had a gutful of their bad reliability incurring claims. What is amazing is that most of this 80,000kms travelled in this MY06 model was 60% on freeway running each day so it had mainly 6th gear running most of the time. Bad design definately but I read that VW recognise this transmission has problems but typically ignore the faithful buyer no doubt. I will bring it to VWA attention either way.
I agree, sealed for life is yeah 3 years. I wonder where this transmission was made? Golf was Sth African built so who knows. I will be demanding a full report on the rebuild of what was repaired and new parts used so as to have a record for us or the next owner when it fails again in time. As VW grow their model base, I am scared that bad reports of reliability and repair costs will savage the resale value. I may as well just buy a second hand Skoda (after the initial buyer takes a hit on depreciation).

Bayman

[Diesel_vert]

I wonder where this transmission was made?

These transmissions are most probably assembled in Japan, and then shipped to whichever VW factory they're needed at.


As for whether regular fluid changes would've helped, it's difficult to say conclusively.
You would have to determine which component/s weren't functioning properly, see whether it's a design flaw, and determine what impact (if any) the condition of the ATF had. You could have several scenarios playing out here:

For example, it is highly possible that the valve body (or whatever) was stuffed to begin with, so that changing the ATF would merely delay the inevitable and not prevent the gearbox from failing. On the other hand, if the demise of the valve body (or whatever) was caused by ATF that was worn out, then clearly, a simple solution emerges.

Or it could be combination of several small factors which snowball into a great big gearbox failure.


Though at least the ATF did last the life of the gearbox, which in your case was 80 000 km.