103TDI or GT Sport?

[VWVIC]

Decisions, decisions...

I KNOW you'll all say go the GT, BUT I'd like to know if it's still good value versus just having the better engine as I'm not buying a diesel for power!

I've got the choice of a 2008 MY08 103TDI pacific (basically comfortline?) DSG with leather and 36,000kms for $23k,

or a 2008 MY08 GT Sport (manual, no leather but with sunroof) with 70,000kms for $26.5k.

Both have done mostly hwy miles. I know the GT is still in warranty so I can extend it, and I *think* the pacific is too.

So is the GT worth the extra coin with double the kms on it?

What are the differences between the engines? From what I can gather the 103TDI is an 8 valve SOHC and the GT is a 16v DOHC, but what's the real world difference here really?

Either way there's probably a good car out there for sale in the one I don't take!

Thanks guys.

[Dano™]

Looks wise the GT is a much sweeter car but at the end of the day I would probably go the 103TDI with a Bluefin from Jmac

[VWVIC]

TBH I'm not buying specifically for power, so likely wouldn't upgrade it (I say that now, but post-purchase could be a different matter!), but it'd obviously be nice.

Are those prices good value for what they are?

[kaanage]

Look in the Diesel forum to see the injector problem that is affecting the 125kW PD engine (used in the GT amongst other VWA cars).

[VWVIC]

Yeah I had a look at that... Bit of a concern, but I would've thought that it'd be covered under warranty though, hence why I'm making sure that the warranty IS current AND extening it before expiration!

[jessv3]

What are the differences between the engines? From what I can gather the 103TDI is an 8 valve SOHC and the GT is a 16v DOHC, but what's the real world difference here really?

s.

Both are DOHC, i thought the main differences were the turbo and the boost it was running but i cant confirm this.

I tend to agree with the 2 above posts, I would go the 103tdi and then bluefin it will give you the same power output as a GT but with the reliability of the 103tdi. Plus having a DSG i think is a must in diesels because of the short rev range it means you will be constantly rowing through the gears in a manual.

Apart from obviously looking better, the GT also gets stiffer and lower suspension and GTI brakes so if these are important to you then maybe you should hold out till you find a GT with leather and DSG.

[poyta]

I've driven both and ended up in the end with a GT because not only did I enjoy the extra power but I liked the idea that I had a unique car that wasn't too common. I also like to modify so its would be good starting point with the better gear already on it. If I were you and just wanted a good car to get from A to B I may be tempted to go the standard model. Re-sale value will be the big difference because the GT is just so rare and unique compared to the standard model. Apart from power the GT also had better suspension ( sits lower ) , better brakes ( brakes from a GTi ) and it looks better ( has a GTi style front ar ),its got 17" BBS alloy wheels, its also got the colour coded mirrors, handles and side strips. The steering wheel is bit nicer too with the chrome GT badge and I think its got Sports seats over the standard. Its definitely more ostentatious but I wouldn't say it was so much more faster . Yes you can definitively feel the extra poke but like you indicated you're not after power and if you were in the future you could always chip it. One thing you may want to ask is if the standard model comes with a DPF because the GT does and in my opinion this is a pain in the ass and a potentially expensive replacement problem I'd rather not have.

[kaanage]

Oh, yeah - I forgot that the 103kW version doesn't have a DPF while the 125kW does.
That said, CogDoc has posted how the 125kW version was extensively modified by VW to manage the extra thermal load so remapping a 103kW model to similar power may cause other reliability issues (if driven frequently using the extra power).

How important is comfort (and ground clearance) to you? That is also reduced on the GT vs the normal TDi, although the Piezo controlled injectors should make the 125kW engine more refined (less diesel rattle).

[VWVIC]

Great info guys, so thanks heaps. To answer some questions...

I had a turbo mk2 MR2 written off a few years back that I didn't replace, and the missus stupidly got me involved in her search for a Golf! I'd buy an R or R32 if economy wasn't part of the equation! We're basically after a good economy car with a bit of internal space that isn't big. It's not an affordability thing as we can come up with the cash needed. It's more a case of not knowing what's good value in the VW world and what's good value period for diesels.

We're used to not having ground clearance so it's not an issue.

I likely wouldn't remap what I get (especially if reliability could be an issue due to it), so extra power out of the box would be better but not essential.

I wasn't aware of DPF issues, but am looking into them now. What's the life on them and what's the replacement cost (and can I have it removed when it fails; will the pollution be any worse than models without one)?

Is the 125 for that price a good buy (I'm pretty sure the 103 is a good buy at $23k)? The 125 does have a couple of extras, but I realise that they're generally a moot point on resale and shouldn't impact second hand price much.

The leather doesn't worry me (can anyone confirm that the seats are different between the pacific and the 125 as I do like good seats).

The DSG doesn't worry me either. To me, the cost of a clutch vs the extra service costs of a DSG (both over time not just single clutch vs single DSG sluid change) are equivalent. Do you really row through the gears with a manual? I mean I've driven 5 speed manuals and I wouldn't see it as that different (feel free to shoot me down here though).

Thanks again - there's a hoard of info around here!

[Greg Roles]

They are both the same engine in basic layout, with the same 1749 turbo, and even boost pressures. Same intercooler, inlet and exhaust apart from the DPF being GT specific in MKV.

The 125kw engine is the 103 with the following changes from the top of my head:

Lightened and forged crank, 4 counterweights vs 8 ( lighter, stronger )
Flatter pistons, better swirl surface, basically better fuel use / power production
Valves changed and recessed in head to improve combustion chamber
Higher pressure Pizeo injectors - Siemens - currently starting to fail in reasonable numbers worldwide. 103 seems immune here.
Different head gasket which strengthens head
Extra water jacket in head with extra cooling around injectors and exhaust ports
Different inducer housing on turbo 1749VC varient vs VB varient in 103 - flows more air
Far better VNT vane control / feedback in 125 - more responsive turbo
DPF particle filter in 125, disposable costs $4k odd lasts approx 150k, but hey, no soot!
Siemens ( 125 ) vs Bosch ( 103 ) ECU system
Poxy material battery cover vs hard plastic in 103!

From the line the GT is far quicker off the mark, seems more responsive in 1st and 2nd. In gear there's a lot less difference, with the torque being pretty similar. The GT has the above mentioned advantages in handling and braking, as well as many creature comforts. The power does come on in the 125 a bit more abruptly, and it's not an easy car to drive uber smoothly in manual. If ever an engine revelled in DSG, it would be the diesel. I got a manual for longevity / strength reasons, it's not fun in heavy traffic!!

If you want to avoid some major potential hassles and leave the car stock, I'd follow the advice of a 103 chipped by a well know brand, the early failures of chipped 103's seems to have been ironed out now. That said the 125 has had a lot of VW modifications to handle the 125kw, and it is indeed a unique car. I'm currently investigating some FAR cheaper overseas options on injector repairs, and I'll probably get mine done just to be sure as I'm about to run out of warranty, and with my tinkering, getting any engine warranty on an extension is highly unlikely. The DPF is another potential issue, but again, I'm planning some major things there, as I personally both want to keep a DPF of sorts, but have a higher flow, servicable and more modern product. That will however be a long term plan. You can indeed delete it, and it gets a major boost in power AND economy, but it's highly illegal, and there's only one company ( still ) that I'd recommend for those looking for a delete - talk to Gav on here from Custom Code. I came real close to doing this, but the greenie in me doesn't want to drive a smokey diesel. The power sounds amazing though!!!

whatever you buy, get a full inlet oil blowby flush done on it, and get a Provent 200 on it pronto, I'm very close to offering bolt on kits there, but you can get a provent from anywhere at about $175.

[WEDEL.1]

If I was buying, I'd go the lower mileage.

[jessv3]

Is the 125 for that price a good buy (I'm pretty sure the 103 is a good buy at $23k)? The 125 does have a couple of extras, but I realise that they're generally a moot point on resale and shouldn't impact second hand price much.

The leather doesn't worry me (can anyone confirm that the seats are different between the pacific and the 125 as I do like good seats).

The DSG doesn't worry me either. To me, the cost of a clutch vs the extra service costs of a DSG (both over time not just single clutch vs single DSG sluid change) are equivalent. Do you really row through the gears with a manual? I mean I've driven 5 speed manuals and I wouldn't see it as that different (feel free to shoot me down here though).

The GT (or 125 as you call it) will always have much better resale mostly due to the rarity of them. There is plenty of 1.4tsi GT's but the diesels are less common and from what Ive noticed with the market they seem to hold a premium over regular diesels (And sometimes even GTI's).

The seats between the pacific and the GT are very similar, the pattern is different but the seat its self is pretty much the same, they are not buckety at all. So having leather optioned certainly helps as the non leather GT seats are just regular golf seats.

Take a 6spd manual diesel for a drive (doesnt matter if its a 103 or 125). You might be ok with it, but ive noticed even in my petrol 6spd manual GTI the 1st gear is very short and annoying when in traffic. So a diesel is only going to be worse as you will be changing even earlier.

[ian]

My GT diesel has 38,000km on the clock when i bought it , ended up buying it for $26,000,nearly half of whats on the one your looking at,
Carsales have a few Gt one at about that price but with a lot lower k's

[jazd]

My GT diesel has 38,000km on the clock when i bought it , ended up buying it for $26,000,nearly half of whats on the one your looking at,
Carsales have a few Gt one at about that price but with a lot lower k's

Is that a recent purchase, I think I saw it on Carsales.

[VWVIC]

My GT diesel has 38,000km on the clock when i bought it , ended up buying it for $26,000,nearly half of whats on the one your looking at,
Carsales have a few Gt one at about that price but with a lot lower k's

Is that the one in QLD? Can't see any others that are lower Kms and similar price. By the time I get it to VIC it's more expensive though and every GT I've seen here seems overpriced! QLD car prices are always cheaper (it ****s me looking for cars down here) and NSW seem better too!

Thanks for the info guys. Keep it coming!