Timing belt and tensioner

[Maverick]

Don’t be the devils advocate.

I like VW cars too.

But!
To my knowledge, before the car goes onto full production and on sale, manufacturer has car prototypes that have already done hundreds of thousands km's under different conditions some much harsher than driving on the sealed roads in the city. This is done for many decades and now also for the last 10 years or so they use computers, modeling softwares and all the advances in materials and technology.

You have engines that are being pushed to their limits during the testing phase and changes being made continually along with pulling engines down. The production engine will have many changes made to it and any of these could be detrimental to the longevity of other components and there is no substitute for real world testing over periods of time with many warm up and cool down cycles, you can't replicate these conditions accurately during testing.

So, now forget that they have all the software and computers to help them to design the engine and the car that will last with minimum failures.

The software and computers can only do so much, the conditions on the road, the conditions where the engine is used and even things like the fuel and oil people put in their engine along with lack of maintenance can all contribute to early failures.

As you said, they have first hand experience seeing failed component (timing belt). Don’t you think that it is a lazy approach to solve the problem (timing belt failing) by reducing replacement interval from 120,000km to 60,000km. I would make changes to the components instead. Especially if they claim that they care about the environment.

But what if your change stresses another component in the car causing a bigger failure? They know that x% of timing belts are breaking earlier than expected so the logical cause of action is to change the replacement interval. Most cars will have a few timing belts change throughout their life so lets say $2000. What would the cost be to introduce a change of say a new belt design along with tensioner and pulleys for example? $3000? $4000?

But hey that’s me using common sense.
What I think is that someone who poorly designed it at the first place is applying his knowledge to get the solution to the problem “replace the timing belt at the 1/2 of the specified interval”, done presto problem solved, lets work on the next model.

There is that as well, the engine has been replaced by a new one and I'm sure that it too will have changes along it's life with regards to preventative replacement so why spend money on an old engine design when an easy 'fix' is at hand.

[Transporter]

pfft, if you can't afford to fix a VW then you can't afford to buy one.

For sure I can afford it, that is not a point.



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[ian]

pfft, if you can't afford to fix a VW then you can't afford to buy one.

The point is Ive already bought one, and was under the impression the belt didn't need changing till 120,000km now instead of it costing $1000 to change the belt it will now cost me $2000 over the 120,000km?
Hows that fair ?

[Maverick]

The point is Ive already bought one, and was under the impression the belt didn't need changing till 120,000km now instead of it costing $1000 to change the belt it will now cost me $2000 over the 120,000km?
Hows that fair ?

It's not but if you haven't learnt it already life isn't fair and you just suck it up and move on especially when the cost is so insignificent over that distance.

If you would rather that Volkswagen didn't make changes to service and maintenance recommendations just ignore it and change it at 120,000kms. Volkswagen have changed the recommendation for a reason so it's up to you if you decide to play russian rollouette with your engine by delaying the change.

[Idle]

This is only a small 4 cylinder motor and the cam + water pump load can't be all that great.

Maybe in the course of cutting production cost VW have used a cheaper belt?

I've fitted $15 retail (yes, I know they've gone up since then, but when you order multiple 1000's they're probably still less than that...) belts to similar sized engines in the past and they've had no trouble running to 100,000k.

Having said that, I'd still take notice of the maker's opinion of their product — they see more failures than any of us do.

Anecdote: Some years ago a relly had a car that was recommended to have its belt changed at 120,000 — when the service light came up he had a mate reset it. When he told me I pressed him to get it done, even offered to do it, to which the reply was "can't afford it".

Somewhere north of 140,000 the belt broke — set him back over $4000. Even small (318i) BMW motors ain't cheap to fix...

Incidentally, he'd bought the car with about 110,000 on the meter — my assessment at the time was that it had to have been rolled back from somewhere nearer 300,000, but of course by that time he'd paid for it (the dealer in question was caught out several years later.)

[Tensixty6]

At the end of the day, if you have an extended warranty, as I do, you change the belt when VW say it should be changed, else you void your warranty, it's that simple. The extended warranty is not cheap. There's not much point throwing it all away but not adhering the the service schedule, as determined by Volkswagen.

[ABCD]

Thanks all for your comments. Have decided to play motoring "russian roulette" and not do the timing belt this year - cant afford it to be honest as having to spend money getting the bloody intake decoked or whatever was "recommended" last year (but funnily enough not mentioned in the service schedule). I am simply unable to ignore my gut instinct here which is telling me (1) that there is something not right about replacing a timing belt on a gently driven 4 year old car with 50K on the clock and (2) my experience with our 23 year old Suzuki Swift runabout that has had one timing belt replaced in over 345K of driving (replaced at 200K in about 1997 when water pump failed), a car that I will keep driving driving till it either requires economically non viable repairs or fails a rego inspection. Somehow I just cannot see how timing belt technology could have regressed in the past 20 years!

[Maverick]

Somehow I just cannot see how timing belt technology could have regressed in the past 20 years!

Look under the bonnet of your swift and look under the bonnet of the Golf. See the difference?
Look at the power output of the swift and that of the Golf.
Measure how many metres of cable you have in the swift as opposed to the kilometres in the Golf.

The swift is basic technology, the Golf is not. Don't try and compare them as you can't. It's like comparing an abacus to a calculator, the calculator does the same job (just better and faster) but it won't last as long and requires frequent maintenance to keep it operational.

[Golf Loon]

Timing Belts are more important on Diesel engines than Petrol. It will cost you a fortune if it breaks. That is why people insure themselves against motor failiure by changing timing belts and doing scheduled servicing.

You need special tools for this job and I would insist on a waterpump and a metal aftermarket one, not a plastic vw one at that. Big job to do the pump again later and the plastic ones disintegrate. Obviously then you also need to change the coolant, which is also not a bad thing after 4 years it could be mucky.

$900 is not a bad price, we charge $950 for that job, but include metal water pump and new G12+ VW coolant. We use the factory tools and VW trained techs.

I reckon most Diesel belts will last till 70k and beyond, but because of the few I have seen fail and the many VW have seen, they are playing safe and reducing the service interval.

Hopefully yours is one of the many that has a long life and does not cause you pain.

[Idle]

cant afford it to be honest

Please refer to my post from yesterday — if you truly can't afford it then skip the (probably unnecessary as yet) intake decoke and do the belt instead.

Incidentally, $900+ has to be an extortionate price for just replacing a belt and tensioner — even if it took a mechanic all day.

And you've been very lucky with the Suzuki — once over about 120K I'd have been at least uneasy about it, at 150K I'd be panicking. Their belts are cheap and, if memory serves me right, a relatively easy DIY.

[Rob Burns]

The diesel belts are not horribly hard to do if you have the right tools. Doing them without the right tools will end in tears. The cam sprockets are adjustable and have to be re-adjusted whenever the belt is changed. $900 does seem a litle steep though but I don't know how much the timing belt kit costs. If it's $400 for the kit then $900 for the whole job seems reasonable.

[Tensixty6]

$900 does seem a litle steep though but I don't know how much the timing belt kit costs. If it's $400 for the kit then $900 for the whole job seems reasonable.

FWIW, the timing belt kit for my MK5 GTI cost $495.00. Labour charge was $308.00. I should imagine the diesel engine kit would be a similar price.

[Jmac]

I spoke to a very reliable long time friend and employee at vwa and there has been no interval change to the pd engine of late, it's 105k or 4 yrs straight from the horses mouth.
Jmac

[Transporter]

Hi Jimmy,
I take it that that's for TDI. Is it?

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[Jmac]

Hi Jimmy,
I take it that that's for TDI. Is it?

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Yeah bud, Tdi Pumpe duse
Cheers
Jmac