Performance Tyre talk

[brad]

Why not base your choice on a tyre review that uses a similar car? Like the EVO tyre review which uses a GTI and has the Goodyear F1 Assymetric as the top tyre and the CSC3 in third place. If you do a search you'll find the results and link to a pdf as well IIRC.

But they aren't really tyres to take tracking. Great road tyres but not what the guy is asking about.

Is the same rubber or is it old stock? Or imported from a country like the USA where it has a different compound and is regarded as a winter tyre? Or perhaps it's a cheap Chinese knockoff? Worth looking into before purchase and checking it against a known real one after purchase.

Sage advice but the Habibs at Tempe sell so many tyres that there is little chance of old stock or other disasters. They just don't mark them up as much as the quieter tyre shops. I used to work at one of the cheapest tyre places in Sydney (Wheels Rockdale) in the '80s and his retail markup was $5 a tyre when the local Goodyear (where I also worked) was $15 a tyre. The Goodyear would wholesale him 100 tyres. He would flog off 60 to other shops that couldn't buy volume for $2/tyre profit (still cheaper than their low volume wholesale price from Goodyear) and the rest retail for $10 less than Goodyear retail. He would have the lot sold within a week for $300 profit & was on 60 days plus he would stall payment so generally didn't pay until 90 days.

I was pricing Kumho KU31 235/45x17 last week.
Local Kumho dealer (Tubbys Kirrawee) $185 fitted/balance/valves
Option1 Garage (BNE) $150 inc freight f/b/v
Tempe Tyres $130 f/b/v

So why is Tubbys $55 more per tyre?

It's all in the volumes & not wanting a holiday house at Pearl Beach.

[parso_rex]

I am leaning towards the Kumho Ku36 at the moment as I have been on many forums and web sites and rarely find anything less than praise for them. I have been quoted $255 for 225/45/17's which is a pretty good price.

I've actually been getting prices for these (KU36's) for the STI getting it ready for sale.

the 225x45x17's are not as common as the 235 and the prices for them are a fair bit more
Tempe just down the road from me want $220~230 but they need to order them in. I like alot of people don't like buying from them but have bought a few sets of 615's in the past. The 615's aren't in the same league as the 36's though, their time has come and gone - great for 4 wheel burnouts though

Best prices so far from interstate dealers incl GST for the 225's are:
Hornibrook motorsport @ $195 plus $15 per tyre freight

http://www.hornityres.com.au/

Option1 $194 tyre plus $15 freight per pair

The 235's are like $30 per tyre cheaper at both places

so Tempe might still get the nod as it includes fitting disposal

[adzy]

I've actually been getting prices for these (KU36's) for the STI getting it ready for sale.

the 225x45x17's are not as common as the 235 and the prices for them are a fair bit more
Tempe just down the road from me want $220~230 but they need to order them in. I like alot of people don't like buying from them but have bought a few sets of 615's in the past. The 615's aren't in the same league as the 36's though, their time has come and gone - great for 4 wheel burnouts though

Best prices so far from interstate dealers incl GST for the 225's are:
Hornibrook motorsport @ $195 plus $15 per tyre freight

http://www.hornityres.com.au/

Option1 $194 tyre plus $15 freight per pair

The 235's are like $30 per tyre cheaper at both places

so Tempe might still get the nod as it includes fitting disposal

After reading all of these prices for the 36's I now know I was given a pretty average price on them! Although I saw the price as a good thing compared to RE070's which I was quoted $400 LOL
Will definitely go the 235's though as they are cheaper and a more common size. Cant wait to destroy my Conti's at Sandown next month

[John Deere]

I've run a set of KU36's on my GTI.

The Grip for a street tyre was amazing, yes its not a proper semi, but it doesnt have heat cycle issues. once they are warm they grip very well in the dry, the wet grip is good, but nothing to write home about compared to the ccs2's or the ku31's I'm running now.

I got 12000km out of them, and still had a good wack left (maybe another 2-3k?) They saw a track day at morgan park, and a mountain run basically every 2-3 nights (nebo return, about 50km of twists) for 6 months, and I'll tell you I wasn't very kind to them...

They are very progressive in loss of grip, and let you know where they stand constanty with very good feedback. On a price vs performance factor, they cant be beaten IMO, and at 160ish a corner (not fitted, or freighted from option1) are remarkable.
You can run 235/45/17 to make it cheaper, and have more rubber on the road at the same time while still being legal in qld (might want to check your state..)

they get a very big thumbs up from me.

The above mostly applies to the Advan AD08's, not a proper R spec, but hook well and last....probably a tad longer than the Kumho by the sounds of it.

[parso_rex]

Just an update. I went down to Tempe this morning to get another price on a set of four KU36's 225x45x17 and they've dropped the price to $188 per tyre now. Quite a difference from two weeks ago at 220~230/tyre. Anyway I'll get these fitted on the way to the workshop on Thursday so I'll find out if the pricing is correct. I did get them to double check though and it was one of the guys I've dealt with on several occasions.
I'm putting the car up on Carsales after the dyno day so someones getting a very good set of tyres for nothing. Silly I know but I just can't bring my self to buy crap rubber.

[brad]

Just an update. I went down to Tempe this morning to get another price on a set of four KU36's 225x45x17 and they've dropped the price to $188 per tyre now.
I'm putting the car up on Carsales after the dyno day so someones getting a very good set of tyres for nothing. Silly I know but I just can't bring my self to buy crap rubber.

Not sure about 225/45x17 but the 235/45x17 Kumho KU31 are $129 each from Tempe. They would be a better all-rounder to fit if you are selling the car. Quieter, better wet grip, not quite as good in the dry but for spirited street running perfectly acceptable.

[parso_rex]

Not sure about 225/45x17 but the 235/45x17 Kumho KU31 are $129 each from Tempe. They would be a better all-rounder to fit if you are selling the car. Quieter, better wet grip, not quite as good in the dry but for spirited street running perfectly acceptable.

Very true but I'm hoping to sneak another track day in before its gone, the cars pretty much setup for that so it would sort of be a bit odd to have more street sensible tyres if that makes sense. The 235s are just a fraction too wide in the rear in these on stock rims.

Cheers

[tinto]

Pirelli p zeros are great all rounders... Plenty of grip and quiet too. They are a good match for a GTI.
KU31 are on par with OEM Conti csc2 in my book. Quiet, grippy yet a great non- continental price.
Toyo Proxes R888 are grippy as hell (even from cold), and I had no problems in light rain with these. Horribly noisy from new.
I was a bit lazy with swapping them over though, so chances are they were past optimum when I got rid of them.

Not all R comps have the same characteristics... Some need a lot of heat, where others are designed for sprints so will grip from cold.

Of the images you've listed, I'm probably most curious about the new hankook rs3, but it isn't out in this country yet.
I've got rs2 on my 200sx... Will hopefully get to try them on a track soon.

[adzy]

Pirelli p zeros are great all rounders... Plenty of grip and quiet too. They are a good match for a GTI.
KU31 are on par with OEM Conti csc2 in my book. Quiet, grippy yet a great non- continental price.
Toyo Proxes R888 are grippy as hell (even from cold), and I had no problems in light rain with these. Horribly noisy from new.
I was a bit lazy with swapping them over though, so chances are they were past optimum when I got rid of them.

Not all R comps have the same characteristics... Some need a lot of heat, where others are designed for sprints so will grip from cold.

Of the images you've listed, I'm probably most curious about the new hankook rs3, but it isn't out in this country yet.
I've got rs2 on my 200sx... Will hopefully get to try them on a track soon.

The RS3's sound like a top tyre with much more grip thna the RS2's, the Yanks are loving them and they have won a few drift events.. which is pretty demanding on tyres....
The Ventus R-S3 is Hankook's Extreme Performance Summer tire developed for serious sports car, sports coupe and performance sedan enthusiasts looking for a race-minded street tire that can also meet the demands of autocross, drifting and track events. The Ventus R-S3 is designed to reduce the performance gap between street and track tires by significantly improving dry traction; however like all summer tires, it is not intended to be driven through snow, on ice or in near-freezing temperatures.

Hankook Racing Carbonblack Silica Compound (RCSC) technology has been incorporated in the Ventus R-S3 to improve dry grip. The tire's profile has been developed to maximize a footprint contact patch that features a directional tread design comprised of large shoulder blocks, notched intermediate ribs and a wide center rib to deliver constant road contact and enhance the tire's handling capabilities. The Ventus name and unique flame patterns are subtly recessed into the center rib and both intermediate ribs to help drivers show off their "hot" new treads. Wide circumferential center grooves, narrower outboard grooves and multiple lateral grooves provide water evacuation for wet traction. The tire's internal structure includes two wide steel belts reinforced by nylon to provide strength and high-speed capability while two-ply polyester sidewalls help resist lateral deflection to provide responsive handling and cornering stability

[tinto]

I'm sure you can get a set out of tirerack... just not locally.
Note in that description they don't mention comfort/noise once

[adzy]

I'm sure you can get a set out of tirerack... just not locally.
Note in that description they don't mention comfort/noise once

I am a fan of the street tyres that can cope on the track also and these are no exception... hope we get them soon.

Comfort/noise... who needs comfort and quite when your car grips like a cat on carpet

[adzy]

Conti's on track day

Went to a track day with Driving Dynamics on saturday on my standard issue Continental Sport Contacts and they took some decent abuse. They turned to goo after 4 - 5 laps and started delaminating at that point (running 35 psi cold).
Was suprised that my standard brakes could handle 4 - 5 laps before a cool down lap was required too low oil pressure warning light came on a couple of times as well
Will post some video and pics when I get the chance. I recomend this mob for a track day too, was a pretty casual day.

[John Deere]

Quick update:

When I posted previously about Yoki AD08's they were around 3000k old. They have now clocked up well over 10,000. A few points to note:

1. They wear quite well, they still have a fair few mm to go before the tread markers.
2. They are now at a point where they truly suck in the wet, I think it is more compoud than tread pattern, but I could be wrong on that. They lose traction in the wet at will and anything more than pottering around at just above average is difficult. If my wife drives the car I lay down the law about her taking it easy, because if you mash, you lose traction before you know it. Having said that, I dont consider the tyres to be dangerous if you drive them within their limits.
3. In the dry they seem to take a little more warming up now, but once they are warm they are still good (this is likely to be seasonal, its now winter eh!!)
4. I have been stupid busy with a new bub and starting a company so I have done only 2 tracks days on them...given that fact, I will get road tyres next time.

Overall, if your gonna do track days, the Advans are tough, they handle it very well grip and heat wise...but in reality, if your doing more than a few throughout the life of your tyres, its probably worth getting a second set of rims...the advans will legally and safely get you too and from the track, and you dont have to deal with the short comings.

All my opinion of course.

[gareth_oau]

a great comment John. I find that too foew people rave about a tyre and its performance, but only relative to the old one theyve just replaced. of course a new tyre is going to be better than an older one!

its good to not that you are considering performance after 10,000kms, as many tyres do drop off quite dramatically as they become less new.

My Goodyear F1 Asymmetrics are now starting to lose their wet weather superiority, but theyve done around 20,000kms, so I'm very impresssed with them. There's probabably still another 5k in them before they are down to the wear bars, so I strongly suspect I will replace them with new F1s

Obviously yours are more track oriented, but do you believe there's enough gain in the short term to offset the longer term compromise and much shorter life, over a great performance road tyre?

[John Deere]

Thats a very difficult question to answer, and the answer will be different for everyone and it will depend on the road tyres you use.

For me the biggest gain of the R specs are that they are still useful on the road after a full on flogging at the track, I have seen so many near new road tyres perish on the track for less performance and I don't envy them. The power most FWD's at the track put down means that wheel spin/traction and tyre heat are constant issues, and road tyres in my experience are not up to it!

Everything is a trade off...Ideally I would have 2 sets of rims/tyres and a nice garage set up to rattle on and rattle off the rims at will. I don't, so for me, on my last few tyre cycles, I believe the R specs have been a better option than road tyres, however as the car gets a bit older and my needs change, I will go toward road tyres on my next set, maybe even F1's!!!