My Jetta is APR'd!!!! and I'm loving it!!

[XXX-1.8T]

people are over reacting to the comments. I'm sure the Australian dealers do something different to the US, but that doesn't exactly excuse the price tag. The UK who would run exactly the same program as here in Australia (as you used the excuse of fuel being different), and they sell it for 499 pounds (AUD$825). The changes are minimal and when APR developed the program, it would of been for the worldwide audience, as only the US have different fuels, therefore the main office would develop something for the US as well as for the rest of the world (which includes Australia). The europe 499 pounds includes 4 programs instead of just 2 as well.

Using a ralph lauren shirt as an example is quite stupid, when it is a tangible item.

Demand and Supply is total BS to be honest, it doesn't work like that. So you think just because there are more people therefore they can charge less? people in new zealand probably have to pay $4000 by your theory, especially for say Sirocco, as they don't sell them in Australia, and they have to "develop" something just for themselves.

I might still pay up for the tuning, just enquiring why it is so much more in terms of price.

Ps. i'm not saying APR Australia is doing a bad job or anything, just saying what they do is not twice as much as the rest of the world. And from going on APR websites worldwide, prices seem to be much lower.

Shows how little you know.

Australia's got the worst fuel in the world. US and Europe have way better fuels than us hence why the price is similar as the tunes dont need to be changed so much.

The same goes in terms of weather - temprature and humidity Europe and US have similar conditions. Ours is differnt once again.

The people that usually whine are the ones that cant afford it. Either pay up or buy something else and have problems down the track.

Buy this guys:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BEST-PERFORMANCE-CHIP-VW-GOLF-1990-2008-2009-EFI-TUNER_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3ef5a34234QQitemZ270409089588QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Or if you think tuning a German car is too expensive buy a Jap car you can tune those very easily and cheaply

[noone]

Think of it this way:

Company 'Cool' sells software. They have to be trained, buy equipment and I believe for some software brands, they pay a 'per-licence' back to the developer company.

If company Cool in Aus sells 100 licences a year, they charge X (lets say $1000).

Now, company 'Extra Cool' (in the USA) has a similar arrangement, but being in the USA has a larger customer base and sells 1000 licences a year.

Extra Cool has the same upfront outlay, but as they sell more units, can afford to do them cheaper to cover shop / mechanic / admin costs (and profit of course).

Another thought is that 'Tune X' in the UK determines the list price and local tuner does not have much say...

Owning a Euro car is just more expensive. More expensive upfront, more expensive to maintain, etc. What some of the tuners charge is not cheap, but its still great results bang-for-buck.

If you are really unhappy with the price difference, why not call a tuner and ask why its so much compare to USA or UK?

[guest12345]

Shows how little you know.

Australia's got the worst fuel in the world. US and Europe have way better fuels than us hence why the price is similar as the tunes dont need to be changed so much.

The same goes in terms of weather - temprature and humidity Europe and US have similar conditions. Ours is differnt once again.

The people that usually whine are the ones that cant afford it. Either pay up or buy something else and have problems down the track.

Buy this guys:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BEST-PERFORMANCE-CHIP-VW-GOLF-1990-2008-2009-EFI-TUNER_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3ef5a34234QQitemZ270409089588QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Or if you think tuning a German car is too expensive buy a Jap car you can tune those very easily and cheaply

wow, just wow.

yes i can't afford it. is that what you want to hear? Just because i have the money doesn't mean i should pay up or don't pay up. if i have a million dollars, i'm not going to pay $20 for a big mac, just because i can afford it and use your term "just pay up".

You can spin whatever bs you want, apr australia does NOT put an extra $700 into their product. In Australia we know we tend to have to pay a little extra, but not over the top extra.

I will give the benefit of the doubt to Australia being smaller hence a higher profit margin, but not double the price.

People say USA is bigger, yes, but they have to hire more people to service the programs and customers. overall the % of cars sold to population would be quite similar.

People use licensing fee etc as an excuse for the high price. More than likely that APR owns all the offices, it is just a sub part of the company, like adidas have an office in Australia, doesn't mean australians own it and have to pay a license fee.

Like i said before and again now, 1600 is not a lot of money no. But just because it is not alot of money, doesn't mean people should pay up when in other countries it is cheaper, originally i questioned the price is NOT to say it is expensive, more like why such a big difference.

And i will say again like most people have said, 1600 is still great bang for the buck, BUT it is still double the price of other locations ALL AROUND THE WORLD, not just US and UK.

[Maverick]

people are over reacting to the comments. I'm sure the Australian dealers do something different to the US, but that doesn't exactly excuse the price tag. The UK who would run exactly the same program as here in Australia (as you used the excuse of fuel being different), and they sell it for 499 pounds (AUD$825). The changes are minimal and when APR developed the program, it would of been for the worldwide audience, as only the US have different fuels, therefore the main office would develop something for the US as well as for the rest of the world (which includes Australia). The europe 499 pounds includes 4 programs instead of just 2 as well.

The US market is massive compared to Australia, Texas alone sell more cars in a year than Australia does. The European market (which includes the UK) is massive compared to Australia both in market share and ECU sales.

Both the US and Europe have densly populated areas meaning dealers have a larger catchment of customers.

APR had three staff out in Australia last year working on tuning for 3 weeks, this included workshop facilities and hiring a AWD dyno from Sydney. You can't do this if you're making $100 on each sale.

APR are also the only company that allow switching programs without a hardware device and offer features like lockout and security modes all controlled via the cruise control stalk. This takes a lot of R&D to develop and an in depth understanding of how the ECU operates. Writing a map over the top of an existing one is a much simpler process.

APR are often first when new cars come out on the market, all comes back to R&D.

REVO even stole all their code from APR so they're not exactly a trustworthy or ethical company.

Demand and Supply is total BS to be honest, it doesn't work like that. So you think just because there are more people therefore they can charge less?

If you can't understand how it works you may as well stop thinking about it.

I might still pay up for the tuning, just enquiring why it is so much more in terms of price.

Ps. i'm not saying APR Australia is doing a bad job or anything, just saying what they do is not twice as much as the rest of the world. And from going on APR websites worldwide, prices seem to be much lower.

There are plenty of products out there that are double the price of other's and often there are reasons for this including support, R&D, quality of the product and so forth. You have to decide if you want a well supported product with a big r&d budget running on your $4000 ECU in your $40,000 car or something that's been taken from another market with minimal R&D and sold at rock bottom price.

If you don't like the pricing and can't see the value in it than buy something else and whilst you're at it ask Volkswagen why the GTI is half the price in the USA.

[guest12345]

The US market is massive compared to Australia, Texas alone sell more cars in a year than Australia does. The European market (which includes the UK) is massive compared to Australia both in market share and ECU sales.

Both the US and Europe have densly populated areas meaning dealers have a larger catchment of customers.

APR had three staff out in Australia last year working on tuning for 3 weeks, this included workshop facilities and hiring a AWD dyno from Sydney. You can't do this if you're making $100 on each sale.

APR are also the only company that allow switching programs without a hardware device and offer features like lockout and security modes all controlled via the cruise control stalk. This takes a lot of R&D to develop and an in depth understanding of how the ECU operates. Writing a map over the top of an existing one is a much simpler process.

APR are often first when new cars come out on the market, all comes back to R&D.

REVO even stole all their code from APR so they're not exactly a trustworthy or ethical company.



If you can't understand how it works you may as well stop thinking about it.



There are plenty of products out there that are double the price of other's and often there are reasons for this including support, R&D, quality of the product and so forth. You have to decide if you want a well supported product with a big r&d budget running on your $4000 ECU in your $40,000 car or something that's been taken from another market with minimal R&D and sold at rock bottom price.

If you don't like the pricing and can't see the value in it than buy something else and whilst you're at it ask Volkswagen why the GTI is half the price in the USA.

You are totally missing the point, don't just throw demand and supply around if you don't know what you are talking about.

This is NOT a "demand and supply" thing. If so big macs in US should be 20c, just because there are more people doesn't put demand and supply into place.

You have to think about the amount of cars sold compared to the population. In the US, Golf GTI is not that popular to the population, VW Australia car sold per capita is higher than in the US. So using this whole demand and supply is BS.

APR doesn't do their own tuning in Australia, don't other dealers install this kind of stuff? APR only have an office in QLD from what i gather on the website.

support and R&D applies to other nations as well. Quality of the product is just as good in other countries, it is minimal R&D in Australia.

I don't know why you guys are defending APR's pricing in Australia. Is it to justify that what you've spent is ok? and say they have done alot of R&D to make you feel better or is there actual proof they have done alot of R&D?

Once again i don't doubt the quality of their products, i have not doubted their products, so people should stop saying, go buy another cheaper version of the product, i'm not comparing prices of different tuning products, i'm comparing the same product but sold in different countries. PS other products from my research seem to be very good as well, but the price difference is nowhere near as big as APR.

As for the price of the Golf GTI, it is simple.. tax, travel distance. A car is actually a tangible item, where volume, demand and supply actually have an effect on the price. All cars cost more in Australia as well, apart from holdens and ford where it is quite cheap in australia.

[Maverick]

You are totally missing the point, don't just throw demand and supply around if you don't know what you are talking about.

This is NOT a "demand and supply" thing. If so big macs in US should be 20c, just because there are more people doesn't put demand and supply into place.

You're going around in circles, one minute you say you can't compare a piece of software to a tangible item and the next you're comparing to a tangible item. Make up your mind which one it's going to be.

You have to think about the amount of cars sold compared to the population. In the US, Golf GTI is not that popular to the population, VW Australia car sold per capita is higher than in the US. So using this whole demand and supply is BS.

No it's not, the US market is different and like the European market more cars are 'chipped' than in Australia.

APR doesn't do their own tuning in Australia

Really? Ok I guess the three APR dudes with computer equipment, a workshop and a dyno writing software, performing tuning, testing and so forth were a figment of my imagination.

don't other dealers install this kind of stuff? APR only have an office in QLD from what i gather on the website.

APR Oceania is not owned by APR.

support and R&D applies to other nations as well. Quality of the product is just as good in other countries, it is minimal R&D in Australia.

Once again the other markets are much larger than Australia. The same R&D is required for each country but you have many more sales to spread the cost across.

I don't know why you guys are defending APR's pricing in Australia. Is it to justify that what you've spent is ok? and say they have done alot of R&D to make you feel better or is there actual proof they have done alot of R&D?

Because it's a good product with excellent support and whining about the price is pointless, you don't want to pay that than go and buy another product.

Once again i don't doubt the quality of their products, i have not doubted their products, so people should stop saying, go buy another cheaper version of the product, i'm not comparing prices of different tuning products, i'm comparing the same product but sold in different countries. PS other products from my research seem to be very good as well, but the price difference is nowhere near as big as APR.

Take a look at how the other products are supported in this country, how many dealers they have, how many staff they have, if they do r&d in Australia and so forth because you can't compare them that easily.

As for the price of the Golf GTI, it is simple.. tax, travel distance. A car is actually a tangible item, where volume, demand and supply actually have an effect on the price. All cars cost more in Australia as well, apart from holdens and ford where it is quite cheap in australia.

Earlier you said that VW sells more cars in Australia per capita so surely they should be cheaper according to your logic?

[noone]

I've never called anyone a Troll before, but this is crazy.

Less than a month, 100 posts, all seem to go nowhere and just aggravate people.

[guest12345]

You're going around in circles, one minute you say you can't compare a piece of software to a tangible item and the next you're comparing to a tangible item. Make up your mind which one it's going to be.

oh dear... how is that comparing? it is in theory.

No it's not, the US market is different and like the European market more cars are 'chipped' than in Australia.

how did you come up with that ASSUMPTION?

Really? Ok I guess the three APR dudes with computer equipment, a workshop and a dyno writing software, performing tuning, testing and so forth were a figment of my imagination.

what i meant is that don't have their own shop... all the tuning directly with customers are through dealers.

APR Oceania is not owned by APR.

APR Oceania is just a dealer/franchise. They don't own the technology, ultimately APR in the US still have all rights to the technology.

Once again the other markets are much larger than Australia. The same R&D is required for each country but you have many more sales to spread the cost across.

Yes, that is true. Other markets might be bigger, but they also need to hire more people, the costs are higher when it comes to a bigger market. The R&D is a cost, but when you look at all the other markets with similar sizes to Australia, it is sold at similar prices to the US. Australia still sell it alot higher.

Because it's a good product with excellent support and whining about the price is pointless, you don't want to pay that than go and buy another product.

Once again, i'm not saying i don't want to pay, at the start when i questioned the price, i actually have no problems with the price at all, just curious why such a big difference. Now i'm just responding to ill conceived knowledge.

Take a look at how the other products are supported in this country, how many dealers they have, how many staff they have, if they do r&d in Australia and so forth because you can't compare them that easily.

I will.

Earlier you said that VW sells more cars in Australia per capita so surely they should be cheaper according to your logic?

Yes... and if you read on, taxes in Australia is quite high for cars, which is where most of the price go to. Australia have special regulations for cars as well. Taxes on new cars in australia is like 33%, and in the US is like 15% (correct me if i'm wrong).

[Tim]

This is all pointless cos neither of you are privy to the cost of bringing the product to the market. Neither of you can accurately justify your arguments.

As mentioned already. Market competition has and will continue to drive the prices down.
The OP is enjoying his purchase. Quit raining on his parade!

[Maverick]

what i meant is that don't have their own shop... all the tuning directly with customers are through dealers.

How does this matter?

APR Oceania is just a dealer/franchise. They don't own the technology, ultimately APR in the US still have all rights to the technology.

They're the distributor, there's a difference.

Yes, that is true. Other markets might be bigger, but they also need to hire more people, the costs are higher when it comes to a bigger market. The R&D is a cost, but when you look at all the other markets with similar sizes to Australia, it is sold at similar prices to the US. Australia still sell it alot higher.

VW sell roughly the same number of models in Australia as most countries.

Each model will have a number of different ECUs at different times throughout their life.

Each will need customisation for their local area (Europe, US, Australia). The work to customise is roughly the same for each one.

Difference is there are many many less customers and sales in Australia.

And the three dudes I saw must have been magical fairies paid for by the fairy godmother.

Once again, i'm not saying i don't want to pay, at the start when i questioned the price, i actually have no problems with the price at all, just curious why such a big difference. Now i'm just responding to ill conceived knowledge.

You mean people who disagree with your ideas on how it works in your mind.

Yes... and if you read on, taxes in Australia is quite high for cars, which is where most of the price go to. Australia have special regulations for cars as well. Taxes on new cars in australia is like 33%, and in the US is like 15% (correct me if i'm wrong).

Still doesn't answer why the GTI in the US is USD$21K and the GTI in Aus is AUD$42K?

Your logic is flawed, you can't compare products across markets like you're trying to do because you don't know what is involved in the pricing, the profit, the cost of support, the costs of distribution, the taxes, the R&D costs and so forth.

You can't see the value in paying for this product so save everyone the hassle and buy something else.

[guest12345]

How does this matter?



They're the distributor, there's a difference.

On the american website, APR oceania is just a dealer.

VW sell roughly the same number of models in Australia as most countries.

Each model will have a number of different ECUs at different times throughout their life.

Each will need customisation for their local area (Europe, US, Australia). The work to customise is roughly the same for each one.

Difference is there are many many less customers and sales in Australia.

And the three dudes I saw must have been magical fairies paid for by the fairy godmother.

If Australia sells the same amount of VW as other countries, than we should be able to sell APR tuning products for the same amount of money.

You mean people who disagree with your ideas on how it works in your mind.

i mean what i wrote.

Still doesn't answer why the GTI in the US is USD$21K and the GTI in Aus is AUD$42K?

continue to make it up as you go. In america it start from $24k and Aus $38k. There are also shipping costs as well. For a tangible item like a car, obviously the more a country orders the cheaper it would be, therefore in America it would be cheaper than in Australia.

Your logic is flawed, you can't compare products across markets like you're trying to do because you don't know what is involved in the pricing, the profit, the cost of support, the costs of distribution, the taxes, the R&D costs and so forth.

You can't see the value in paying for this product so save everyone the hassle and buy something else.

My logic is flawed? yet when you make things up it is not?

I fully understand the company need to make a profit and cover the costs. I have nothing against that.

If you believe the rest of the world are paying around $700 and we in australia paying $1600 is fair, thats good for you. I very much doubt our product is worth $900 more, that is all i'm say.

Just do the math, in the US $700 they are obviously still making money, take that aside. Each 100 item they sell they are making an extra $90000, this is just one 1 ECU tuning, not including all the other extremely high mark up prices.

I'm sure they sell alot more than 100 items, so you think r&d, costs etc cost more than 90k for 1 thing on a computer? i very much doubt it.

And like i said before, if i never saw the price of the american product, i would pay $1600 for it, but now i've seen the US price, i'm not sure if i would.

[Maverick]

On the american website, APR oceania is just a dealer.

Harding Performance are the exclusive IMPORTER and DISTRIBUTOR for APR/Oettinger/DMS and resell the product through a network of DEALERS across Australia.

But you know better so believe what you want.

If Australia sells the same amount of VW as other countries, than we should be able to sell APR tuning products for the same amount of money.

Clearly you have some agenda so there is no point in trying to explain what is the very basic concept of a relative fixed price for development for each country which has to be paid for by sales, sales which are lower due to the smaller market. Just because our market is smaller doesn't mean that R&D or support costs are any lower.

continue to make it up as you go. In america it start from $24k and Aus $38k.

GTI 3 Door DSG = USD$24764
(price includes metallic paint, tpms (in wheel), mdi, bluetooth, 8 way front seats, heated seats, satellite radio, 5 year power train warranty, 10 year dsg, and all servicing for 3 years and the only minus is the single zone AC system) = $3000 in extras.

Comparative Price = USD$21764 = AUD$23765.

GTI 3 Door DSG= AUD$46500

Total difference is OVER AUD$20,000.

There are also shipping costs as well. For a tangible item like a car, obviously the more a country orders the cheaper it would be, therefore in America it would be cheaper than in Australia.

Your story keeps unravelling. You said earlier that they don't sell many GTI's in America and they're not popular in Australia so which one is it going to be?

There is over AUD$20,000 difference, even if they flew them to Australia using the Concorde it wouldn't account for that difference.

My logic is flawed? yet when you make things up it is not?

I haven't made anything up, I saw the APR fairies doing development work and I have some idea about the differences between countries.

I fully understand the company need to make a profit and cover the costs. I have nothing against that.

If you believe the rest of the world are paying around $700 and we in australia paying $1600 is fair, thats good for you. I very much doubt our product is worth $900 more, that is all i'm say.

Just do the math, in the US $700 they are obviously still making money, take that aside. Each 100 item they sell they are making an extra $90000, this is just one 1 ECU tuning, not including all the other extremely high mark up prices.

I'm sure they sell alot more than 100 items, so you think r&d, costs etc cost more than 90k for 1 thing on a computer? i very much doubt it.

And like i said before, if i never saw the price of the american product, i would pay $1600 for it, but now i've seen the US price, i'm not sure if i would.

As someone said earlier it's pretty clear that you're trolling. First you post about almost falling for a Nigerian scam and next you're an expert on what is and isn't a supply and demand price issue and what R&D costs are and so forth.

[guest12345]

Harding Performance are the exclusive IMPORTER and DISTRIBUTOR for APR/Oettinger/DMS and resell the product through a network of DEALERS across Australia.

But you know better so believe what you want.

So yes, APR Oceania is just a dealer then.

Clearly you have some agenda so there is no point in trying to explain what is the very basic concept of a relative fixed price for development for each country which has to be paid for by sales, sales which are lower due to the smaller market. Just because our market is smaller doesn't mean that R&D or support costs are any lower.

What agenda do i have? please do tell. You don't know what you are talking about, you have no idea how much it cost to develop each product, it could be $5 it could be $50k, yet you pretend to know how much, by explaining all this bs.

Sales are lower yes, that is not the point, the point is how much do you think it actually cost for R&D and support, from the sound of it you actually think it cost over $100k to do 1 product, which is ridiculous (as 100 items sold would make aussie dealers $100k over US prices). They have many other products, do support spread over the range, so i very much doubt it cost over $100k to make a system very well developed already to turn aussie friendly.

GTI 3 Door DSG = USD$24764
(price includes metallic paint, tpms (in wheel), mdi, bluetooth, 8 way front seats, heated seats, satellite radio, 5 year power train warranty, 10 year dsg, and all servicing for 3 years and the only minus is the single zone AC system) = $3000 in extras.

Comparative Price = USD$21764 = AUD$23765.

GTI 3 Door DSG= AUD$46500

Total difference is OVER AUD$20,000.

GTI 3 door is NOT $46500, no one would pay that amount.

I'm not trying to say the US is not cheaper, it is. As to most cars sold in the US seem to be cheaper than most places, there is a reason for that, it is not only for VW. Or most cars sold in Australia is more expensive.

Your story keeps unravelling. You said earlier that they don't sell many GTI's in America and they're not popular in Australia so which one is it going to be?

There is over AUD$20,000 difference, even if they flew them to Australia using the Concorde it wouldn't account for that difference.

No i said they don't sell many VW in the US. I didn't say they are not popular in Australia, i said they are, hence the demand/supply.

There is NOT over $20k difference. Plus it has to do with new car taxes coming into australia that pumps the prices up. I'm sure you should know what exactly it is.

I haven't made anything up, I saw the APR fairies doing development work and I have some idea about the differences between countries.

what you've seen the australian ones working really hard, and the others not working hard? hence they can double the price.

As someone said earlier it's pretty clear that you're trolling. First you post about almost falling for a Nigerian scam and next you're an expert on what is and isn't a supply and demand price issue and what R&D costs are and so forth.

How am i trolling? i simply asked a question about how come they charge twice as much as the rest of the world. Than a bunch of people went fully defensive over this issue.

I know my business very well, i don't sell my car or spend years on a car internet forum, therefore i've never seen that internet scam before, is that so hard? how does this two link together?

One is business and the other is an internet scam. Totally different things.

Know what demand/supply is pretty easy, they teach you that in the 1st week of economics 101.

There is no need to be an expert to know how much R&D cost, just use a bit of common sense, when the rest of the world sell it for half the price, common sense tells you that in Australia it is over priced. simple. You can blabber on all you want, it doesn't change the fact.

[kryten2001]

Haha, having said that, please enlighten us which tunes are better than others

I have no idea, I've not compared them on a dyno nor in real world conditions.

[Maverick]

So yes, APR Oceania is just a dealer then.

They're a distributor, they provide support and the product to DEALERS throughout Australia. Surely someone who claims to operate a business can understand the difference between a distributor and a dealer?

What agenda do i have? please do tell. You don't know what you are talking about, you have no idea how much it cost to develop each product, it could be $5 it could be $50k, yet you pretend to know how much, by explaining all this bs.

I never said I knew how much it cost. I offered you some explanations to explain why prices are different in Australia.

Sales are lower yes, that is not the point, the point is how much do you think it actually cost for R&D and support, from the sound of it you actually think it cost over $100k to do 1 product, which is ridiculous (as 100 items sold would make aussie dealers $100k over US prices). They have many other products, do support spread over the range, so i very much doubt it cost over $100k to make a system very well developed already to turn aussie friendly.

You have no idea. IIRC the tool to flash the earlier mark 6's (1.4l) cost each of the dealers $3000 or thereabouts and how many mark 6's do you think they had to reflash to pay that off? And the mark 6 is just one out of many cars out there.

GTI 3 door is NOT $46500, no one would pay that amount.

We're comparing apples with apples. $45,600 is the on road price in QLD for a 3 door DSG GTI with no extras. That is the price you pay before any discounting (if any).

The price listed for the USA is the price you pay before discounting.

I'm not trying to say the US is not cheaper, it is. As to most cars sold in the US seem to be cheaper than most places, there is a reason for that, it is not only for VW. Or most cars sold in Australia is more expensive.

But why? We've already been over the tax situation and that doesn't account for it and you pointed out they sell less VW per capita than Australia so why the difference?

No i said they don't sell many VW in the US. I didn't say they are not popular in Australia, i said they are, hence the demand/supply.

What you said was the GTI wasn't as popular in the US as it is in Australia (i worded that part of my post incorrectly).

There is NOT over $20k difference. Plus it has to do with new car taxes coming into australia that pumps the prices up. I'm sure you should know what exactly it is.

There is 5% duty on cars coming in plus GST.

what you've seen the australian ones working really hard, and the others not working hard? hence they can double the price.

For the last time APR USA sent out three staff and set up in a workshop, shipped up a rented 4 wheel dyno for 3 weeks and organised new Mk 6 vehicles along with others to customise maps for Australia along with create new ones for the Mark 6's. How much do you think something like this costs at the end of the day? $100,000? $200,000? Free?

How am i trolling? i simply asked a question about how come they charge twice as much as the rest of the world. Than a bunch of people went fully defensive over this issue.

You would be better placed taking it up with VW and you could save yourself nearly half a new car price if you can convince them that they shouldn't be charging double what they charge in the USA.

I know my business very well, i don't sell my car or spend years on a car internet forum, therefore i've never seen that internet scam before, is that so hard? how does this two link together?

One is business and the other is an internet scam. Totally different things.

Not really both revolve around common sense.

Know what demand/supply is pretty easy, they teach you that in the 1st week of economics 101.

There is no need to be an expert to know how much R&D cost, just use a bit of common sense, when the rest of the world sell it for half the price, common sense tells you that in Australia it is over priced. simple. You can blabber on all you want, it doesn't change the fact.

So Volkswagen are ripping us off now?

And once again you've missed the point. I'm going to ignore you now as you're clearly trolling, you have you mind set that we're being ripped off (not that any of the current customers see if that way) and refuse to entertain any explanations or rationale behind it. You throw out arguments that are quickly refuted with facts (like the price of the GTI and R&D in Australia) but stick to them without conceding any ground and yet you can't see that your argument also suggests that Volkswagen Australia are making an additional $20,000 on a base GTI out of it's customers (oh that's right supply and demand applies here for the GTI in Australia but not the software which also has a cost attached to it).