Air intake for gti

[Tim]

Personally I'm getting to the stage where if I don't personally see gains on a graph (ie on the same dyno), using the original as a control, then I don't believe it. Some of the figures and stories I've read and seen over the last few months leaves me a little jaded.

Here you go. Heres a dyno. Not that I put much value in them. Theyre generally used for marketing purposes on the internet moreso than as a tuning tool.


As I mentioned already I have one on my car and with my tune i noticed a reasonable difference. It did take a day or two to adapt and for that difference to become apparent though. After first installing it I noticed no change and thought that it wasnt so great.

I have heard some nightmare stories of some tunes not working well with some intakes but that more seems to be with big turbo kits or cheap intakes that dont have the correct MAF housing size which can throw out MAF readings.

[kryten2001]

Here you go. Heres a dyno. Not that I put much value in them. Theyre generally used for marketing purposes on the internet moreso than as a tuning tool.


As I mentioned already I have one on my car and with my tune i noticed a reasonable difference. It did take a day or two to adapt and for that difference to become apparent though. After first installing it I noticed no change and thought that it wasnt so great.

I have heard some nightmare stories of some tunes not working well with some intakes but that more seems to be with big turbo kits or cheap intakes that dont have the correct MAF housing size which can throw out MAF readings.

Sorry I meant actual tests from real world cars, not from the manufacturers supposed testing used for selling their kit. I'm talking about actual real impartial testing.

This isn't directed to you at all Tim, or indeed only CAIs, just in general terms. There's a lot of BS out there in performance land for what adds power - and how much. Has been since the dawn of car-time..

When it comes to CAIs there are so many variables... Some cars would benefit more than others depending on their particular setup/conditions etc.

[Tim]

Sorry I meant actual tests from real world cars, not from the manufacturers supposed testing used for selling their kit. I'm talking about actual real impartial testing.

This isn't directed to you at all Tim, or indeed only CAIs, just in general terms. There's a lot of BS out there in performance land for what adds power - and how much. Has been since the dawn of car-time..

When it comes to CAIs there are so many variables... Some cars would benefit more than others depending on their particular setup/conditions etc.

Oh I agree with you 100% there is certainly a lot of rubbish out in the market. And a lot of people get coerced into paying a lot of money for it. But we are here to share information. Ive shared my experience based on actually using the product mentioned above. At the end of the day im a bit of a no bull**** straight up kinda guy. Im not interested in doing the hard sell.

[kryten2001]

Oh I agree with you 100% there is certainly a lot of rubbish out in the market. And a lot of people get coerced into paying a lot of money for it. But we are here to share information. Ive shared my experience based on actually using the product mentioned above. At the end of the day im a bit of a no bull**** straight up kinda guy. Im not interested in doing the hard sell.

Sure Tim. I wasn't having a go at all, just making a statement that (in my opinion) manufacturers claims are rarely verified and most people who buy upgrades never verify them either - in terms of either dyno runs or 1/4 mile slips, or indeed any scientific measure whatsoever.... Most of the testing is done by feel, which is highly subjective and inaccurate.

So many people buy stuff on what they read, from people who write bumf without ever actually objectively testing it. "My mate bazza put on a fully sick pod filter and 3" system and his car made 100kW extra" is not exactly a scientific test, and nor is a chart from the manufacturer that fails to list the testing conditions and/or the car config of what it was tested on.

So when it comes to CAIs, until I actually see an exhaustive test which takes into account different engine configs, and is compared scientifically and objectively, I'll refrain from considering one for my car. Take that money and put it into something that's confirmed for increasing performance.. Lighter wheels - or save up for that bad boy turbo.

Lots and lots of small questionable performance mods just waste money and time and make your car look and sound really naff.

I know my opinion will go against the grain, but this has been my experience over quite a number of years. If you put 100 performance mods on your car, I bet 10% of them will give you 90% of the gain.

[Guy_H]

Air intakes are easily measured & you can get actual real data pretty easily.

Measure your Mass Air Flow & your intake temps with stock & aftermarket filters on. Both these figures relate directly to engine horsepower.

This is done very easily with Vag Com advanced measuring blocks & can be done on the same car / same day.

It's pretty hard to measure on a dyno unless you can replicate road speed & fan speed the same, and of course, do the runs with the bonnet shut (which forces the air into the airfilter box same as when you are driving).

Carbonio makes more HP & gives you a cooler intake charge - pure & simple. It eliminates all hot air feeds & draws NO air from the engine bay.

It's also legal in all states of Australia.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3437465&page=1

It may not make as much HP as some others do, but there are many more factors involved.

When you get to the K04 sized turbo, the higher flowing tubular versions struggle (where they are fine on K03 cars) to run cleanly as the flow over the air mass sensor is not as expected, we have had to swap out several "tubular" intakes on K04 cars (factory & upgraded ones) to Carbonio styled ones to fix the problem.

It does not only exist here - its a problem in the US as well: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4349899

Anyway, if anyone wants to carry out the tests, let me know, the hotter the day, the better the test!

[Big Yellow]

Guy have you tried/done tests just replacing the stock filter with the filter that comes with the carbonio, but not fit the carbonio.

interested to see if the change is actually from the carbonio unit and not a result of the replacement filter

[kryten2001]

Anyway, if anyone wants to carry out the tests, let me know, the hotter the day, the better the test!

You're not going to dissuade me Guy, the big Turbo is what I'm looking for!

I just won't be happy until I've thrown/bent a conrod, blown the DSG or otherwise melted something thought previously unmeltable!

[Tim]

When you get to the K04 sized turbo, the higher flowing tubular versions struggle (where they are fine on K03 cars) to run cleanly as the flow over the air mass sensor is not as expected, we have had to swap out several "tubular" intakes on K04 cars (factory & upgraded ones) to Carbonio styled ones to fix the problem.

It does not only exist here - its a problem in the US as well: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4349899

It certainly is something that is worth being cautious of depending on the direction you have for your car. Whilst I agree with what is said above I think it needs to be clarified that most tuning companies tune their K04 kits to work with a higher flow intake just as APR do with their stage 3 kits.
For instance GIAC tunes have been developed to work with evoms and VF Engineering intakes and there are a few k04 equipped cars getting around with them.

At the end of the day mixing and matching parts from here and there wont always work so well as its not possible for tuning companies to cover every variable that may exist.

[Guy_H]

Guy have you tried/done tests just replacing the stock filter with the filter that comes with the carbonio, but not fit the carbonio.

interested to see if the change is actually from the carbonio unit and not a result of the replacement filter

No, they come as a pair from APR, so I have not tested it.

Volkswagen use the Carbonio airbox on their V50 production model & Oettinger use it in their upgrade over stage 1 & gives the MKV 7 - 11kw in combination with a catback exhaust. (DIN verified & TUV approved)

http://www.oettinger.de/en/product-88/volkswagen-1/golf_5-23/engine_accessories-245/oettinger_ram_air-270.html

[Guy_H]

You're not going to dissuade me Guy, the big Turbo is what I'm looking for!

I just won't be happy until I've thrown/bent a conrod, blown the DSG or otherwise melted something thought previously unmeltable!

Stage 3 gets you one of the best intakes on the market so no problems there!

[Guy_H]

because carbonios dont give you any increased performance - its a known fact.

the tsi carbonios are different however.

Do you have data to back this up - or where did you get your information from?

As mentioned before, I'm happy for someone to test a now 5 year old, very successful product.

[Nathan_B]

And if you just do it to make the car sound rice, then you're being a bit of a :

interesting.. guess you don't have the 3.2L and not aware of the sound a filter can attract on such engine

[Big Yellow]

Do you have data to back this up - or where did you get your information from?

As mentioned before, I'm happy for someone to test a now 5 year old, very successful product.

i dont have hard data, but there are so many for sale on the forums i have to wonder why that would be the case.

why can't you just test the filter alone? sure it comes in a pair, but why would it be so hard for you to just put the filter in and test it with the stock air feed. looking at a pure design point, i can not see how it would be any better than the stock feed, as it utilises the stock intake point in the grill and stock intake piping.

[Guy_H]

i dont have hard data, but there are so many for sale on the forums i have to wonder why that would be the case.

why can't you just test the filter alone? sure it comes in a pair, but why would it be so hard for you to just put the filter in and test it with the stock air feed. looking at a pure design point, i can not see how it would be any better than the stock feed, as it utilises the stock intake point in the grill and stock intake piping.

I suggest you look at them side by side, but hey, you don't even own a GTI.

There are lots of used R32's for sale as well on the forums, does not mean they are crap & don't work (or does it?)

Show me the data & I'll agree with you - if you don't have any - don't post. Pretty simple.

[Big Yellow]

I suggest you look at them side by side, but hey, you don't even own a GTI.

There are lots of used R32's for sale as well on the forums, does not mean they are crap & don't work (or does it?)

Show me the data & I'll agree with you - if you don't have any - don't post. Pretty simple.

why do you need my data? you're selling the product, not me. show me your data of filter only then ill stop bagging it. its an open forum, and i'm entitled to my opinion - and in my opinion - it sucks.

i have worked on enough GTI engines to know how they work and how the stock filter works.