TSI and cold mornings...

[tdi guy]

Have you TSi users out there had any 'engine issues' on cold mornings? I've found the engine is almost backfiring first thing when I head up a hill from my home unless I really 'feather' the throttle (and don't exceed about 30 km/h). Twice I've had the engine warning light flicker about 5 times and then stay off (I understand - from RTM - that this is an 'exhaust system' warning light; I'll be taking the car in this week to see if it is merely cold weather running, though I don't recall this happening last winter, which was about the same temperature).

Any thoughts? The motor frees up eventually, but only after about 15 minutes...

[guliver_twist]

no such issues with mine.. sounds like you should visit a service center..

[Greg Roles]

Sounds odd that a car designed in a place that snows would have any cold problems here.

[Fanaki]

TSIGuy - no problems here.

I do much the same as you in the morning ie feather the throttle for the first 10 odd mins but I don't have the engine light come on and the car sounds quite normal.

Hopefully, it's not a huge thing and you get it sorted out ASAP.

[boogz]

Can't say that I have had that problem. My car starts it's day with a good warm up (about 5 mins) before heading onto the road (That's just me being pedantic about cold starts) Needless to say, my father-in-law's Jetta 2.0 donk does that when you start it up in the morning. But he sits there feathering the engine until warm enough and then drives. Has never mentioned it happening while he's driving.

[NickZ]

Can't say that I have had that problem. My car starts it's day with a good warm up (about 5 mins) before heading onto the road (That's just me being pedantic about cold starts) Needless to say, my father-in-law's Jetta 2.0 donk does that when you start it up in the morning. But he sits there feathering the engine until warm enough and then drives. Has never mentioned it happening while he's driving.

I am no expert, but warming up your car for 5 mins before driving firstly is not doing much in terms of warming up your engine, and secondly is doing it more harm than good. Others on here would be able to explain better, but the best thing is to idle it for about a minute at most and drive gently for the first 10 minutes of any drive.

To the OP, your operation is definitely not normal, especially the flashing lights and backfiring. Hopefully the dealer can scan it and sort it out for you.

[boogz]

I am no expert, but warming up your car for 5 mins before driving firstly is not doing much in terms of warming up your engine, and secondly is doing it more harm than good. Others on here would be able to explain better, but the best thing is to idle it for about a minute at most and drive gently for the first 10 minutes of any drive.

that's good to know... I suppose old habits die hard... don't know how it would harm the engine and would be happy to be explained why.

Probably for another thread, to me it doesn't make sense, if the engine is at optimum operating temperature before driving off how would that harm it? I'm not arguing, just asking the question.

[tdi guy]

I should add, today as an experiment I 'gunned it' going up the hill near my home: the engine 'cleared' and went like the clappers. There was still some hesitancy after, though the engine seemed 'clearer' (like clearing a stuffy headcold). However I don't think such treatment is advisable every day after only 1-2 minutes from 'cold'.

I'll see what the dealer thinks later this week.

[warhead]

The 24M3 upgrade to the engine software was supposed to have fixed the performance issues in cold weather.

It would've been applied at your first service if you don't have it. Maybe check with the dealer whether this upgrade is applicable to you?

[gregozedobe]

that's good to know... I suppose old habits die hard... don't know how it would harm the engine and would be happy to be explained why.

Probably for another thread, to me it doesn't make sense, if the engine is at optimum operating temperature before driving off how would that harm it? I'm not arguing, just asking the question.

Quick'n'nasty explanation off the top of my head so I'll probably miss some stuff:

The problem isn't driving off with the engine at optimum temperature, it is the excessive idling while cold - the engine is running rich, the extra fuel is washing away the oil from the cylinders, and it can also glaze the bores (especially bad for diesels). And because the engine isn't under load it isn't producing much heat so it is taking longer for the parts to get to their design clearances, plus the oil pump isn't producing the correct oil pressure to lubricate everything. As previously stated, start up and drive away gently until the engine (and engine oil) is properly warmed up.

Some people (the really fussy and those in very cold climates) fit their cars with mains powered heaters and even electric oil pumps to overcome these issues (but that can be a lot of expense and work).

Edit: Found this thread for warming up TDIs, but much of it is relevant for petrols as well :

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showthread.php?t=12842

[bazzle]

The reason for the TDi hesitating when cold is probably not because it is running rich when cold, more likely a bit leaner than it needs to be (emission requirements).
Letting it idle doesnt heat everthing up but may put enough heat into the head etc to allow the leaner mixture to fire properly allowing you to drive off smoother.
A few minutes in my mind will do no harm.

Bazzle

[Maverick]

that's good to know... I suppose old habits die hard... don't know how it would harm the engine and would be happy to be explained why.

Probably for another thread, to me it doesn't make sense, if the engine is at optimum operating temperature before driving off how would that harm it? I'm not arguing, just asking the question.

First open the glovebox and RTFM as it explains that you shouldn't let the car idle for long periods but drive the car normally.

As others have pointed out the best way to warm up the car is gently driving. Because an idling engine takes so long to get to operating temperature where it's most efficient the fuel doesn't complete combust and this can contaminate the oil and spark plugs. Water can also build up in the exhaust pipe (condensation).

[BarneyBoy]

The 24M3 upgrade to the engine software was supposed to have fixed the performance issues in cold weather.

True - and there should be a sticker on the lower edge of the A pillar (when you open the driver's door) with the 24M3 upgrade sticker fixed to it.

And from my point of view, haven't had any cold start issues with mine.

[tdi guy]

True - and there should be a sticker on the lower edge of the A pillar (when you open the driver's door) with the 24M3 upgrade sticker fixed to it.

No such sticker on mine (and it had its 15k service earlier this year, too, so not sure why it was not done - mine was bought new in May 2008...).

We'll see next Thursday week...

[tdi guy]

physical damage

Just been informed by the dealer that the problem was not DSG or dodgy fuel etc but some pins sheared off the manifold! I'll post further details when I get a fuller explanation. Likely caused by engine movement, apparently, so a warranty job (luckily for me).

Perhaps worryingly, he said he identified the exact cause of the problem within seconds of driving the car (which suggests it may be a common problem).