1.4 APR Chip - First Impressions

[Creniac]

Alright guys, I've run it through a 1/4 mile calculator........we all know the GTI (stock) comes in with 147KW and weighs 1340kg in 6 speed manual ....
TSI (chipped APR) comes in with 151KW and weighs 1310kg in 6 speed manual......

Before we run it through any of the online calculators we need to convert the KW to HP and the KG to Lbs.... being an Engineer we know 746watts = 1 HP and 1kg = 2.2 Lbs (close enough)

So here it is:

converted GTI (stock is) 197HP and weighs 2948 Lbs
converted TSI (chipped) 202HP and weighs 2882 Lbs

Now for the calculator:

GTI (stock) 1/4 mile in 14.35 secs @ 94.95 miles an hour (152.8 Km/h)
TSI (chipped) 1/4 mile in 14.13 secs @ 96.48 miles an hour (155.43 Km/h)

Theoretically the chipped TSI wins on paper....... BUT ONLY JUST!!!!

Disclaimer: MAV NO COMMENTS PLEASE!!!

[GTom]

LoL... thought this thread was going to go off topic...

Sorry haven't posted for a while busy with other commitments....

Within the same amount of distance on the stock program I got to a top speed of ~90..... with the chip ~100 (this was on a freeway...)

If anyone with a DSG GTI wants to make a clip of a dash to 100 from standstill and send to me I'll include it on the mash up.... OR even someone with the other chip for the TSI would be nice also....

I've recorded it but it starts from 30km/h (I forgot to press the record button when at standstill....) just have to format it into split screen..

From what I've seen from above the stock program keeps par with the flash until about ~40-50 Km/h then the flash gets faster...

I've been trying to plan to go to a few meets in Sydney..... But they are all freaking on days I work WTF!

However if anyone is around my area and wants to see it in action send us a PM might be able to organise something!

[mr gee]

the gt tsi has 125kw, whilst the 118tsi has 118kw if im not wrong... BUt yeh congratz on the tune ey! expect a huge gain
any dyno graphs of before and after?

The big diff between the two is more about a 7 speed DSG that is supposedly limited to 250nm vs a 6 spd DSG (350nm)

[Paul_OH]

The big diff between the two is more about a 7 speed DSG that is supposedly limited to 250nm vs a 6 spd DSG (350nm)

And I understand tuned to get improved economy 7.7l/100km for the 125kW vs 6.6l/100km for the 118kW - quite a healthy difference for the sake of 7kW!

I wouldn't mind any feedback you have re: economy too GTom

[Greg Roles]

Who would have EVER though when the mighty MKV GTI was released that in a few years time close competition would come from a 1400cc motorcycle engine version, or even worse, an oil powered version. Speaks volumes for just how good the engineers at VW are, when they can take two fairly limited powerplant designs, and get them to within a second or so of the car of the year. Who cares which is faster outright. The TSI has a massive displacement disadvantage, yet, there it is nipping on the "big boys" heels.

Just awesome.

[Treza360]

Who would have EVER though when the mighty MKV GTI was released that in a few years time close competition would come from a 1400cc motorcycle engine version, or even worse, an oil powered version. Speaks volumes for just how good the engineers at VW are, when they can take two fairly limited powerplant designs, and get them to within a second or so of the car of the year. Who cares which is faster outright. The TSI has a massive displacement disadvantage, yet, there it is nipping on the "big boys" heels.
Just awesome.

It will be interesting to see just how far you can push these engines with bolt ons though. As we've seen with the APR Stage 3 GTI you can get some phenomenal power out of the 2L donk. It also shows just how under stressed the GTI is (albeit to the extreme but look at the S3 and even the Pirelli as well).

Whether the TDI or TSI motors are capable of this kind of thing would be interesting to see. Still mighty impressive though.

Cheers,
Trent

[Creniac]

Well Said Cogdoc!!!

[POLARBEAR666]

It will be interesting to see just how far you can push these engines with bolt ons though. As we've seen with the APR Stage 3 GTI you can get some phenomenal power out of the 2L donk. It also shows just how under stressed the GTI is (albeit to the extreme but look at the S3 and even the Pirelli as well).

Whether the TDI or TSI motors are capable of this kind of thing would be interesting to see. Still mighty impressive though.

Cheers,
Trent

I think the limit on an iron block like the 1.4 is the head bolts. Heads normally start to lift once you pass 25psi-28psi and then you need head stud kit. However VW motors may have really good head bolt setups and not need an upgrade.

The only other probable weakness is the pistons. The rods won't have an issue as torque won't get near anything to bend the rods unless they are really tiny.

I have seen a stock EJ207 short block subaru motor run 30psi day in day out with motec m800 and a really sharp tune running wideband lambda. Tuning is the key if you wanna push things. Motor never popped! ran 460hp@wheels.

[spiff]

And I understand tuned to get improved economy 7.7l/100km for the 125kW vs 6.6l/100km for the 118kW - quite a healthy difference for the sake of 7kW!

I wouldn't mind any feedback you have re: economy too GTom

I'm glad someone raised this. I've read a bit about the limitation placed o the 7 spd dsg. Is that limitation in place for the purposes of fuel economy? Or is there something more to it?

Is it true that tuning/chipping and engine mods reduce the life of the engine? Or is it just a general statement that applies to heavy mods that push the engine to its limit?

I am thinking of chipping at some stage - thinking after the car has run in and I've had a feel so I can compare - in the future, and I don't mind sacrificing a little fuel economy for heaps more fun..so I'm also waiting to hear back about fuel economy differences in the chip v unchipped.

Unlike some others, I definitely want to keep my car around for more than 3,4,5 years..

[golfyvic]

chipped GT TSI vs stock GTI.....

dunno about anyone else but I'd be very interested as to what the outcome of this would be.

mav was saying that there were too many variables regarding a 1/4 mile drag between the 2 cars. I agree with the comment regarding wheels, but I can't see how the other variables might hinder the outcome if its against a STOCK GTI vs a STOCK GT TSI with an APR chip (yes, technically its not STOCK anymore but stock in terms of suspension, etc).

for argument sake, if both cars had the same fresh wheels (same wheel make and model etc) and if they both went down the 1/4 mile, it would be very interesting as to where the chipped GT comes in. i'd think itd be a very close outcome

I suppose to compare, it should also do a run against a completely stock, non chipped GT TSI with the stock GTI.

At the end of the day, a chip is to increase the performance and remove the restrictions from the factory ECU and it seems like the APR chip definitely has done that. As to whether or not a chipped GT is faster than a stock GTI, who really cares? if a GTI really is faster, so what? everybody got their car for whatever reason and these sorts of comparisons are useless. Whatever makes ya happy is what counts....

Yep I agree...Got my TSi cos apart from the fact it looks awesome, loved the idea of the super charger and the turbo.. By the way, getting the APR upgrade next saturday after Volkspower (in Vic), gave me a 6 hr free trial. All they do is load up the software for the trial, and it runs for 6 driving hours. Made a massive difference especially down low...

[warhead]

With the APR tune, is VW's adaptive ECU functions still enabled?

I hate how my car "adapts" to the way I drive and at one point even stopped the turbo from spooling unless I went WOT. Did a reset and it was responsive for all about 10km and now it's starting to revert back to it's lethargic state.

I drive "normally" most of the time.

[kaoticice]

all i can say is ...... VdUb !!
1.4 tsi is an amazing engine imo.. why can't they just have a 2.0 twincharger version on the GTI Lolz

the 2.0tfsi without re-mapping is also fairly restricted, note the gain on apr stage 1 : 400nm+ tyre ------> <------driver *fatality*

So in my conclusion; both engines are well engineered

[GTom]

Yep I agree...Got my TSi cos apart from the fact it looks awesome, loved the idea of the super charger and the turbo.. By the way, getting the APR upgrade next saturday after Volkspower (in Vic), gave me a 6 hr free trial. All they do is load up the software for the trial, and it runs for 6 driving hours. Made a massive difference especially down low...

I got the TSI for the exact same reason!

Yay, someone else who can answer the questions as well

The consumption varies alot on how you drive it.... If you drive normally I have found it to be pretty much the same but if you give it some it will chew more than giving it some on the stock chip.... Hope that helps answering the consumption question....

I'll have the comparison up and running on YouTube Monday arvo.....

[BarneyBoy]

I'm glad someone raised this. I've read a bit about the limitation placed o the 7 spd dsg. Is that limitation in place for the purposes of fuel economy? Or is there something more to it?

It seems to be a design decision based on efficiency/economy/packaging.

The original 6 speed used wet clutches, with the new one being dry clutches that are apparently cooler running & more efficiently. It's also smaller, weighs 7 kg less and only uses 1.7 litres of oil vs 5.5 litres on the 6 speed.

This first version seems to have been designed with models like the Polo in mind - smaller, lighter, more fuel efficient, and with its torque limitations, not likely to be an issue with their smaller engines. Doubtless a more heavy duty version is in the works so that it can be fitted to diesels and engines like the GTIs.

There's some info about the 7 speed DSG here:

http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/dsg-7-speed.htm

[spiff]

thanks for that barneyboy.

i also saw a similar question asked on the mk6 golf subforum, and it mentioned that there's quite a large buffer.. so i'm not too worried if that's the case.
i'm sure after the run-in, there will be more people who have had various chips installed.

if fuel consumption isn't that much different when driving normally, then maybe there won't be a need to keep switching it between the stock and one of the chipped modes.